Colour touchscreens

hello all

Being my first post i have a few things to ask, i have read most if not all the posts on this board (some i dont understand as im not familiar with the terminology and workings)

I am in the process of having my house completely renovated and would like to install c-bus (dont like x10 - but i know dont knock it till youve tried it ) but there are a few things i would like to figure out first

I cant afford the colour touchscreen as i think its a little over priced, so i was thinking is it possible to have a pc that is on all the time (mini itx) with a 7" touchscreen (xenarc) to controll the system (its about ?500). If so what software would i use ? The reason i would like to do this is firstly the looks, secondly i dont want to have 10-15 switches on a wall (the lounge, diner and kitchen are relatively open plan and would all be controlled from this location)
I have a similar system in my car, and its fantastic (mini itx with 7" screen) but the software is easily available, and there are various front ends to try out.

ive been looking at homegate, is this what i need to get ?

any comments or suggestions ?

i will also be having a false coving type ceiling installed (dont know what its called) the one where the lights are hidden in the coving, but what im not on is what type of lighting to use there, i dont want to use a flourecent as the gaps between each light shows on the ceiling as a shadow, again any idea's ?

more questions to come

 

Clifford
You will need at Least a version of Homegate and a PC Interface or Network interface for Homegate to talk to the c-bus Network. The PC interface will require a serial port on your PC if not the Network Interface (CNI) will need to be connected to your LAN port or Network. The PC will also have to have the minimum requirements based on the software Toolkit and Homegate (see Downloads (Clipsal.com/cis). As for lighting in coving I would recommend LED strip lighting that can be made to any length Osram make some good ones. Some can be fixed colour or rotating. The cheapest options is rope lighting.
Cheers

 

Have a look at www.charmedquark.com and http://charmedquark.com/phpBB2/index.php
It will do your front end and a whole lot more.

 

Hi there, Clifford

Irrespective of the "open plan", try to avoid the temptation to put all the switches in one central location. You will drive yourself (and everyone else who uses the space) completely mad if you do that.

There needs to be switches adjacent to EVERY door, and also near each "usage centre". I have been involved with enough Cbus installs to know that the having too many switches in one location makes it an absolute nightmare to operate. Also, it's a pain having to walk all the way thru a space to turn on the lights.

A touchscreen makes it even worse - do yourself a favour and put a single or 2-gang switch at every place where you can walk into the space. Don't complicate things by trying to rely on motion sensors, scenes, etc, or to try and save money of switches. When you enter a room, you need to be able to turn on at least SOME of the lights (the "navigation lights" that can allow you safe movement through the area) quickly and easily.

The touchscreen is cool, but bloody annoying because you have to navigate menus etc. The purpose of the screens is to offer centralised control, but don't use them as your only way of control. Ever used a stereo system that uses a touchscreen or other complex menu to do the basic things like ON/OF and Volume? Think of BMW Idrive, it's cool for geeks but offers nightmare-inducing lack of usability.

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Regarding the cove lights, to get a decent light level you'll need a LOT more output than you think, because the efficiency of such an installation is very very poor. It looks fantastic as a decorative element, but to actually light the room you'll need to allow for approximately 4 times as much raw lumen output as you'd normally require.

To provide anything other than a glowing effect, LED is a waste of time - not enough grunt, far too expensive and too inefficient anyway. Some people use Xenon Incandescent festoon lamps (Lightstars, ClickStrip and similar systems), and these initially seem a good solution. But with lamps every 100mm or so, you have an absolute nighmare in maintainence... one blown lamp and the effect is destroyed by the dark patch, and with 10-20 lamps per metre you are CONTINUALLY replacing lamps. Also, there's a HUGE electrical load which means big dimmers to control it and huge electricity bills. Some suppliers claims of 20,000hr life is ummm... a bit of a lie.

Don't even think about using Philinea or other incandescent strip lamps. You'll go broke maintaining it.

The absolute best solution is fluorescent. You get 70-80 lumens per watt (rather than 15-25 with LED or Xenon) and unrivalled "evenness". The "dark joins" you refer to are caused but the lampholders in an "end-to-end" installation. What you need is a system that is designed specifically for Cove Lighting, which have flexible joiners that allow you to overlap the joins.

Sylvania / Concord have the best "plug-in and go" system named the "Slimlight" but it's also one of the most expensive. There's a multitude of cheaper chinese models too - in Aus you can get some amazing prices and pretty good equipment, but keep in mind that you always get what you pay for.

The original Sylvania product
http://www.sla.net.au/pdf/brochure/slimlite_04.pdf

New smaller T4 version (warning : T4 is a non-standard lamps, can't be bought from normal lighting shops!)
http://www.sla.net.au/feature/SlimliteT4/

Sylvania is the only system that can be dimmed.
http://www.sla.net.au/feature/T5Slimdim/
- I'm still finding out if there's a Cbus interface developed yet.

Alternatively, there's another way - a guy here in Aus makes units where the ballasts are remote to the lamps, which are held with clips. You have to put the ballasts within a metre of the lamps, but at least it allows flexibility. That system can be fitted with 0-10v, DALI or DSI dimming ballasts. It's basically an evolution of the same mounting system used inside backlit exterior signs.

Finally, there are heaps of dedicated Cove Lighting systems around. These are usually even better than the "bare lamp" approach because they incorporate reflectors that chuck the light out towards the centre of the ceiling. In these cases you pay a lot more but gain huge amounts of efficiency and also the ability to light the whole ceiling rather than just a band next to the cove itself.

Hope that helps, JC

 

Thanks for the replies

John ..

i have done a bit of searching and found this company http://www.covershield.co.uk/ballast.htm they do a dimmable ballast that can controll 2x35 watt t5 tubes (also on a flylead). I need about 12 of these to do my lighting. How i do find out what rating i need on the gateway ?

am deffo having a rethink of the switches / touchscreen, am going to add a few more switches, only if they wernt so darn exspensive :S

thanks

 

10-15 switches on a wall

Clifford
Never rely on just the touch screen to control lights. If the touch screen goes down so does your light control through that T/S. You will then need those switches that you don't like for control of your lights whilst cursing the touch screen. It will not be a matter of IF the touch screen fails but WHEN will it fail then what do I do for control until it is replaced.
What John says is right about having switches at entry points to rooms. Even if you don't put all the switches in now, make sure that you cable to those other points during construction so you can easily connect switches to the bus later without a major rewiring headache.
A touch screen for most homes is only there for the **** factor and should not be relied on solely for all the control needed.

Regards Stephen

 

Hey clifford,

I am relatively new to cBuss but I have been in computers and worked with control systems for years.

I agree with the comments about the CTS £££ and would recommend a PAC as a repository for any complex logic you may want, they are unbelievably cheep considering the power and stability.
I would also NOT recommend relying on anything as fragile, relatively speaking, as a PC to form any part of your critical systems, there is just too much that has to be perfect before it will work.

You might want to consider the following scenario which will I think solve your problems.

Site switches near important entrances and exits. (Mentioned earlier)
Use at least 2 output units, and then cross over the zones that they supply. If you do that and one goes down you still have some circuits active throughout the space. wiring in logical zones is tempting, it feels right, but if your ‘Upstairs relay’ is bust it is a lot more inconvenient than some of the circuits on each floor being off.
A really good example of this kind of thinking would be to wire alternate lamps servicing an escape route on different output units and different breakers.

Program your basic lighting requirements into the switches, that way you have distributed the logic and eliminated any single point of failure, remember your network can be almost any shape other than a loop, and avoid long daisy chains where possible.

Once you have that sorted add a PAC and enhance the logic capabilities of your system, if it is down or your logic gets in a knot you will still have basic functionality.

Lastly hook up your PC, you can still a fully interactive display, even a touch screen if you like but it will basically be bells and whistles turn it off and everything is just as it was because the PC is a none critical system element.

Most of all HAVE FUN and WOW your mates without upsetting your partner, any none techy will tell you a switch goes on and off and lives by the door.