Color c-touch color can read but not send out c-bus messages

Discussion in 'C-Touch/HomeGate/SchedulePlus/PICED Software' started by wanricky, Jan 9, 2016.

  1. wanricky

    wanricky

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    I have two different projects having the same problem. It happened a few months ago. Color c-touch has failed to control lighting occasionally. Since other switches had similar issues, clock and burden were re-programmed and everying were back to normal except the color c-touch. It can never control anything again. The internal log of the c-touch shows that c-bus messages are well received but all out-going command from the c-touch are bounced back. Therefore, it can display status but not control anything. Even the scene stored inside cannot be triggered by other switches.

    Last month, exact problem was reported from another site.

    Would it be a firmware, power supply or win xp issue? Both projects are five years or older.
     
    wanricky, Jan 9, 2016
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  2. wanricky

    Mr Mark

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    Hello wanricky.
    I've had almost a dozen CTC's fail like this. Contact your local rep to have it sent back for repair - it's economical to fix and usually has a quick turnaround time (provided your rep actually sends it away).
     
    Mr Mark, Jan 10, 2016
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  3. wanricky

    Kevinqpsd

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    Mark,

    I am located in Townsville. Can you please contact me (email below) to discuss this issue further as my home unit is doing this exactly.

    Kevin

    Kevin@qpsd.com.au
     
    Kevinqpsd, Jan 26, 2016
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  4. wanricky

    Kevinqpsd

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    Resolved:color c-touch color can read but not send out c-bus messages

    All,

    With the help of the information of this forum I was able to identify Capacitor C81 (4.7 uf 50V) capacitor had blown on the cbus sim circuit and therefore was not sending the commands on the cbus network.

    I have removed anc confirmed faulty and replaced with new device and the CTC2 5080 is serviceable now.

    I am happy to help anyone if you have this issue. You can contact me on

    Kevin@qpsd.com.au

    Thank you.
     
    Kevinqpsd, Jan 28, 2016
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  5. wanricky

    mikegriff

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    Hi All.
    With Kevin's input I have now managed to mend my unresponsive CTouch!!!!

    Thanks goodness for these newsgroups !!!!!!!!!
    Mike
     
    mikegriff, Feb 1, 2016
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  6. wanricky

    ashleigh Moderator

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    Those capacitors are multi sourced (ie pick a manufacturer that has one that does the job, and use it).

    At one point, a long time ago, capacitors from one supplier (and it was most likely only a batch of them) would behave OK until they had been in service for 5 - 10 years, then they would fail. Clearly the parts and the product are way outside warranty periods by that time so the component maker had no care factor.

    There was an internal investigation done with caps from different makers, trying accelerated life tests (basically over-stress them at high temperature). This was all fairly inconclusive.

    But a common thing to check if you have this kind of failure is the big cap (typically 50V or more rated, and a value between 2 uF and 4.7 uF). Sometimes these can be replaced to fix comms troubles.

    Disclaimer for those who want to leap up and down and say: "oh bastards known problem and did not fix it": Whilst this might be a "known" issue, the products fail many years after the warranty period expired; worse identifying which manufacturer [of the caps] is more prone to failure than others is damn near impossible [no m/f markings], and many go on to run forever. It's never been established which manufacturer, or what conditions, etc etc. It's just something that has come up from time to time as an occasional pattern.
     
    ashleigh, Feb 6, 2016
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  7. wanricky

    Jakey

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    I have a CTC3 that im having similar problems with, could it be the same issue?

    It will loose connection to c-bus at some point from straight away to a couple days later (after i unplug it from power + c-bus) and wont regain a stable connection? In the log it repeatedly shows an error (every 5 seconds) 'C-Bus DLL error 11, Connection to C-Bus failed' and on the startup screen (after reset) it has a window that says 'connecting to C-Bus on COM 3' but the progress bar never gets to the end then a window pops up (error 14023) saying 'could not connect to serial port. C-bus interface not found.'

    Any help would be much appreciated.

    Regards
    Jake
     
    Jakey, Feb 9, 2016
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  8. wanricky

    mikegriff

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    Hi Jake
    It sounds like the same fault

    You have to open up the CTouch and split the the 3 boards open.
    Then change 3 Surface mount Capacitors. NOT FOR THE FAINT HEARTED!!!

    I would advise that unless you are happy to do this it is best to get someone qualified to change them.

    I'm guessing that this is the reason for the full instructions are going by PM and not fully published here?

    Hope this helps, it is worth doing as it breathes life back into the Ctouch.
    I must admit though I have moved all the Logic, Scenes and schedules off to a PAC, just incase more Capacitors fail.
    Mike
     
    mikegriff, Feb 9, 2016
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  9. wanricky

    Jakey

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    im just trying to find out if it is still under warranty, if so would this be covered? If not, how do i obtain instructions to do the repair myself?

    Thanks!
     
    Jakey, Feb 10, 2016
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  10. wanricky

    BillieGee

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    Issue with C-TOUCH Connecting to CBUS Netwo

    I have just started experiencing this issue. I have updated firmware to latest version 4.13.0.25. C-TOUCH is running Windows NT 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2.

    Issue seems deteriorate to a point it doesn't connect to CBUS on startup anymore.

    Are there any other fault finding analysis that can be done prior to assuming the board capacitors have failed?

    Can someone on this post please provide details for replacing faulty capacitors???

    Thanks.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2016
    BillieGee, Mar 13, 2016
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  11. wanricky

    Mr Richard

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    I have had the same problem (send to network fails) and have just replaced C81 and the CTC now appears to be working correctly.
    I managed to change the capacitor without splitting the boards as it is accessible from the edge of the board. I also used a ordinary leaded capacitor as a replacement making the job easy.
    I tested the old capacitor with a multi-meter and it appeared to be working so perhaps it only fails at operating voltages.
    I'll send an update if it stops working again in the near future.

    Many Thanks to Kevin for his post saying that C81 was the cause of the problem.
     
    Mr Richard, Nov 10, 2017
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  12. wanricky

    Dan

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    Hi Can you tell me where the capacitor is?

    I can't find any capacitors named C81 on mine :/.

    Thanks
     
    Dan, Jan 17, 2018
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  13. wanricky

    mikegriff

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    c81.jpg
     
    mikegriff, Jan 17, 2018
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  14. wanricky

    Dan

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    Thanks for posting this, it will help others also.

    Kevinqpsd was also kind enough to email through the pictures as well so thanks to you both.

    I can confirm that replacing the 4.7uF capacitor solved the problem for me also. Got a pack of 10 for 85 cents from Jaycar so can't complain about the cost of the fix. The caps I got at Jaycar are the same as the existing capacitor on the board.

    I separated the boards to do the fix, it wasn't that hard to take apart anyway. Just keep a track of which way things plugged in if your going to do it, I took pictures before I disconnected anything.

    I'm not a pro with a soldering iron but managed it. Just make sure you have one with a fine tip as its a squeeze re soldering between the PCB above the capacitor.


    Thanks again guys :).
     
    Dan, Jan 18, 2018
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  15. wanricky

    BillieGee

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    I have just pulled apart the board to look at the capacitors in question I the thread above, I did not replace it yet, I then put the board back together, but CTC is not powering up, obviously I have done something wrong, can anyone advise, thanks.

    Dan would appreciate if you send picture your took.
     
    BillieGee, Jan 28, 2018
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  16. wanricky

    NickD Moderator

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    I had the same problem myself but it was actually the external power supply failing to start up... Mine is the variant with the little flat box at the touchscreen end of the cable. I don't know what I did but it eventually came good and has been fine ever since.

    Nick
     
    NickD, Jan 29, 2018
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  17. wanricky

    BillieGee

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    I did think is could be power supply, I checked voltage across two pins and getting a reading of 6 - 7 volts dc. Back of CTC states 5.5volts.
     
    BillieGee, Jan 29, 2018
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  18. wanricky

    BillieGee

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    Can someone advise if these are the correct voltages into C-Touch Colour Screen.
    • At power source 7.7 vdc across pins (See Photo A)
    • On circuit board 2.27 vdc across PCB pins (See Photo B)
    As per my thread above, I have disassembled circuit board to have a look at the faulty capacitor detail in this thread, I have not removed capacitor. I then reassembled circuit board, but C-Touch Colour Screen now doesn't power up, screen is black and no LEDs light up. I am assuming I have incorrectly assembled or PCDB power connection is now faulty, as previous threads state PCB needs 5.5 vdc.

    o_O Assistance would be much appreciated, C-Touch Screen is now going onto 10 year old, model 5000CT (See Photo C).

    Bill.

    Photo A.JPG

    Photo B.JPG

    Photo C.JPG
     
    BillieGee, Feb 2, 2018
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  19. wanricky

    NickD Moderator

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    I don’t know off hand what it’s meant to be but I’m pretty confident that it’s not that.

    The version 1 units needed pretty close to 5V out of the power supply under load... 7.7V unloaded might be ok, but something definitely seems wrong with it dropping to <3V under load.

    It might be worth looking at sending the unit back for repair or reconditioning.

    Nick
     
    NickD, Feb 5, 2018
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  20. wanricky

    Sea Captain

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    So finally after many years of service (and after a couple of minor repairs) this also started happening to one of my CTC's. Did as above and replaced C81 with a standard 4.7uF/63V electrolytic cap without fully disassembling (just pulled the old one out from the side and soldered the new one in). Works like new! Thanks so much for the advice Kevin :) Would have taken me forever to fault find this without cct diagrams...

    Cheers
    SC
     
    Sea Captain, Dec 11, 2018
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