CNI (5500CN) vs CNI2 (5500CN2)

Discussion in 'C-Bus Wired Hardware' started by Roti, Nov 6, 2014.

  1. Roti

    Roti

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    Hi.

    Does anyone know if there is any significant difference between these ?

    I've has a 5500CN on my network for years, used for programming via toolkit, and connected to C-Gate running on a virtual machine, allowing a number of other devices to interface via C-Gate.

    I've found the CNI appears to be dying in recent days. C-Gate connection fails and it needs to be restarted to connect again, works for minutes to days, then same again. Has previously been stable for about 6 years.

    I planned to just replace it, but noted an apparent new model seems to have replaced the previous device. Any significant difference ?

    Hopefully the web interface has been updated, given the hassles you now have to go through creating a Java security exception to connect to the web interface just to configure or reboot it.

    Thanks
     
    Roti, Nov 6, 2014
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  2. Roti

    Ashley

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    Have you tried replacing the power supply? A flaky power supply will produce the symptoms you list. It's just a 12V DC (or AC) 500mA plug pack.
     
    Ashley, Nov 6, 2014
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  3. Roti

    Roti

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    Hi. Thanks for the reply.

    I initially thought of that and checked the voltage, which showed 12V, so I assumed it was OK. But I'll swap it for a new one if you think that's worth trying.
     
    Roti, Nov 6, 2014
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  4. Roti

    ashleigh Moderator

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    They are very different beasties, but do the same job.
     
    ashleigh, Nov 7, 2014
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  5. Roti

    Ingo

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    It would have been nice to have the option of PoE to power the Ethernet side of the new CNI.

    Ingo
     
    Ingo, Nov 7, 2014
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  6. Roti

    ashleigh Moderator

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    PoE is one of those things where you can't win. If you require it then you get complaints because of the need for a power injector. And it you don't have it, you get complaints from those who want it. And if you support with and without the cost and design complexity goes up and so you get complaints that its expensive.

    See where this is leading :D
     
    ashleigh, Nov 8, 2014
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  7. Roti

    jboer

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    I would have to agree and disagree with you on this one Ashleigh.

    I agree that it is hard to satisfy everyone and there are many cases where you can buy a model with either/or, but after building a few devices myself with POE I have found that the cost of an off the shelf POE shield that I can put on a board with little effort is really not that expensive. Add a couple extra components and you can have both, POE and external power supplies, even in a redundant configuration.

    Unless you are really trying to make your device small and discrete I think in this day and age where the majority of IT installs now have POE switches it is a little old school to say that they just cause trouble and are too costly.

    In saying that unless I have the option with a device to have both, I will usually go for the model with the external supply, so all I have to carry is one model for all sites.
     
    jboer, Nov 8, 2014
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  8. Roti

    Ingo

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    +1 jboer. I even have my little Arduino running over PoE and No, I don't have any separate injectors. I made the descision a while ago to replace my network infrastructure with PoE and now almost everything I use runs on PoE. Look, it doesn't bug me, it's just like you said, it's a bit backward not offering it and it's a hassle to have separate PSU's for all devices not using PoE.

    This little gem has more than enough power, I am sure you can fit an even smaller one. It even has 1.5KV isolation.

    http://arduino.cc/en/uploads/Main/PoE-datasheet.pdf

    Suggestion: Make the CNI front/back cover removable and make this module 'pluggable' somehow. Sell the CNI as PoE or non-PoE and then offer it as an aftermarket 'upgrade'.

    Ingo
     
    Ingo, Nov 8, 2014
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  9. Roti

    Roti

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    Follow Up

    Well, I tried a new PSU. but had the same problems.

    Managed to get a 5500CN2 from a local distributor and swapped it in. Working fine ever since, so I guess the original was dying (and as suggested by ashleigh, it works just the same, but appears to have different internals - also seems a bit faster).

    Thanks.

    P.S. My 2c on PoE - I really like PoE for solving remote device problems - once you bite the bullet and put in some PoE switches, you use them for heaps in a geek home (I use PoE IP cameras, wireless access points, GlobalCache interfaces), but I figure on a DIN rack (where a C-Bus CNI usually goes), there's usually power available nearby.

    Cheers
     
    Roti, Nov 9, 2014
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  10. Roti

    ashleigh Moderator

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    Oh by the way, 1.5 kV isolation is actually not very good.

    To maintain safety isolation, Australian standards typically require between 2 kV and 4 kV isolation between mains and the safety classified circuit (which in practice is anything a person can touch... ie C-Bus, ethernet).

    Just to make life interesting, Ethernet typically has only 1.5 kV isolation which is a a bit of an aberration and makes equipment design a challenge (there needs to be a second set of isolation somewhere).

    Those making home based stuff with Arduino can end up doing what they like.

    THOSE WHO SELL A PRODUCT IN AUSTRALIA MUST HAVE IT COMPLY WITH AS/NZS 60950 FOR SAFETY OF INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY EQUIPMENT. This includes suitable design for safety isolation, creepage, clearance, and general insulation.

    If you don't understand the above, please don't go offering advice to others and please don't sell anything! You really need advice from a test lab and a good understanding of the standard. There are many test labs out there who will do such testing (it's not cheap).
     
    ashleigh, Nov 11, 2014
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  11. Roti

    Ingo

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    And that is why Clipsal is still the benchmark everyone else is measured against - safe, reliable... it just works!

    Hopefully the PoE idea is not completely dead and might be in a future product?
     
    Ingo, Nov 11, 2014
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  12. Roti

    DarylMc

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    If anyone really wanted a POE power supply to a CBus interface there is always the option of a 3rd party serial device server plugged into the CBus RS232 PCI.
    http://www.moxa.com/product/NPort_P5150A.htm

    As an electrician, one thing I always have a bit of trouble with is the idea of installing Ethernet network cabling into an electrical switchboard.

    Whatever CBus interface ends up being used, if you locate it in a data enclosure which I think is the best idea then you would also have to question whether you gain much by using POE.
     
    DarylMc, Nov 11, 2014
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  13. Roti

    ashleigh Moderator

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    Oh yes ethernet into a switchboard is rather iffy.

    There needs to be REALLY good segregation if you do that.

    Reason C-Bus cable is pink: better grade of insulation in order to maintain that safety isolation.

    Ethernet and mains power don't mix very well. I won't even try offering advice there apart from: don't do it, but if you have no choice then be very careful and talk to an electrical inspector!
     
    ashleigh, Nov 12, 2014
    #13
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