Clipsal Premise Gateway & Wiser

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Charlie Crackle, Apr 1, 2009.

  1. Charlie Crackle

    ashleigh Moderator

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    PoE is both a blessing and a curse. A CNI that only took power over ethernet would be shunned in many sites because of the need for special switches :(

    A CNi without needs a separate power supply which is a pain in those sites which have the special switches :(

    So it needs to be able to draw power from either source. A one-does-all. :(
     
    ashleigh, Apr 16, 2009
    #21
  2. Charlie Crackle

    Charlie Crackle

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    Was not saying to only have this option. Just about every other device on the market that is POE has a standard power option as well. some supply the power supply and some dont and make the power supply an optional extra and reduce the price of the device. This is the best option.
    Cisco used to supply their POE access points with power supply as well. I now have over 300 cisco access point power supplies collected from wireless installs on POE switches. :)

    What a pitty the router switch did not support POE you could have done away with the BUSBAR (and replaced with a patch cable) and you could have added the features

    1) POE power for IP cameras
    2) Power for IP phone. which makes Voip calls via the internet.
    3) Power for POE Wall clocks.
    4) Power for POE Internet radios
    5) Power for POE Gas Detection Equipment
    6) Power for POE Smart Card readers
    7) Power for second Access point
    8) Power for POE Photo Frames.




    So when the DIN CNI comes up for redesign
    1) Make POE powerable as additional option
    2) Make the second lantronics serial port avaliable on an rj45 for external use (unless you stop using lantronics!)

    :)

    By the way the clock is wrong on the forum 1 hr fast.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 16, 2009
    Charlie Crackle, Apr 16, 2009
    #22
  3. Charlie Crackle

    znelbok

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    Come on Ashleigh, you know this is not entirely true at all. A POE injector (as used with the CISCO range we have) would solve the need to have a special switch. When there is only one POE device this is a very economical way of achieving POE.

    Your last statement is totally correct and I dint think that it would be too hard to achieve as dual power in DC is very easy and often used where redundancy is required.

    Mick
     
    znelbok, Apr 16, 2009
    #23
  4. Charlie Crackle

    Conformist

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    Hey Guys

    Always interesting to see discussion on things like POE. Something to bear in mind with any product development such as Wiser. Ethernet configuration is a big step up for a lot of C-Bus installers. I know there are many of you guys who know all of the ins and outs of networking. This is to be a broadly available product from the most basic residential installation to a more complex one. It's also a global product so there are a lot of issues in different countries where different rules, and levels of experience apply.

    Product development takes into consideration all of the geographical and skill-set variants to come up with the most generic product for the broad market. The old saying applies...... you can please some of the people some of the time....... sure you all know the rest

    It's also a time to market and price issue... another contributing factor to the platform(s) selected.

    If you haven't already, download the latest PICED and setup a Wiser project


    Enjoy programming and using Wiser.... you'll love it :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 17, 2009
    Conformist, Apr 16, 2009
    #24
  5. Charlie Crackle

    ashleigh Moderator

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    Mick - my statements are not incorrect, and for you to say they are is slightly misleading. Product design involves numerous trade offs, and it seems every time I try and explain (usually in a few short sentances) what some of them are, I get my head chewed off.

    I really do wonder why I bother.
     
    ashleigh, Apr 17, 2009
    #25
  6. Charlie Crackle

    paulw11

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    Hi,

    I am not sure what the current requirement of the gateway is, but if it is less than 1 amp you could use one of these to add POE support.

    Paul
     
    paulw11, Apr 17, 2009
    #26
  7. Charlie Crackle

    Charlie Crackle

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    Keep bothering.... You are always very Enlightening !
     
    Charlie Crackle, Apr 17, 2009
    #27
  8. Charlie Crackle

    znelbok

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    Ashleigh

    Firstly, there was no head chewing, I did not say there were incorrect statements, just not entirely true - not the full story.

    I felt it was important to clear up what you had said. Your post indicated that you needed a special switch (with PEO) capabilities to use a CNI that had POE (which is true). To those who are unaware that power injectors are available as an alternative thus removing the need for POE switches, your post was misleading.

    I am fully aware of the trade off's that have to be made during design and I was in no way commenting on that issue.

    Why bother, because we care about the product, otherwise we wouldn't be reading and posting here.

    Mick
     
    znelbok, Apr 17, 2009
    #28
  9. Charlie Crackle

    Conformist

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    Guys please....can we look past the POE. It's not on the product.

    For those who haven't had a chance to look at the Wiser yet, here's some of the features that installers and users will enjoy.

    -You can pass through the Wiser to C-Bus using Toolkit. This means you will be able to program/reprogram C-Bus both locally (wirelessly or on the LAN) or remotely through an internet connection
    -You can reload the Wiser project remotely should your client want changes
    -Your client can access their system remotely via the net via a Web browser or a Flash Projector executable file (a little added secuirity and reduction in bandwidth)
    -You have a full logic engine, scheduler, and scene engine
    -You can create projects with a fantastic look and feel, in a fraction of the time with pre-designed backgrounds (skins) and Widgets
    -There is a Vista Media Centre plugin
    -Wiser supports Network Time Protocol (NTP) for accurate time and date across C-Bus
    -Supports newer C-Bus devices such as Thermostats, Shutter Control and MRA Transport Control
    -Has an on-board email client for POP3 non-secure email checking and sending (also enhanced in logic)
    -Has an on-board RSS feed client
    -PICED has an active Widget preview and simulation mode for testing project aspects before loading to the controller

    -Doesn't have cup-holders or POE... sorry, you'll have to provide these options yourselves.

    Download the latest PICED and try it, especially the Widget Manager

    Cheers
     
    Conformist, Apr 17, 2009
    #29
  10. Charlie Crackle

    2SC

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    If wiser controller is so cool as described, I think it is time to get also a cheaper large color touch screen without logic.
     
    2SC, Apr 18, 2009
    #30
  11. Charlie Crackle

    MichaelCarey

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    How will Wiser go in situations when the customer needs to retain their existing ADSL router/modem?
    I presume it's just a matter of setting up some port forwarding though the existing router to the Wiser if external access to the system is required.
    Michael.
     
    MichaelCarey, Apr 20, 2009
    #31
  12. Charlie Crackle

    Darren Senior Member

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    The Wiser has to be used with a customer's ADSL modem/router. It does not contain an internal ADSL modem.

    It depends on exactly what you are wanting to do. There are several different configurations, each of which suits particular requirements. Some of these involve port forwarding.

    Refer to the Wiser Installation Guide for details.
     
    Darren, Apr 20, 2009
    #32
  13. Charlie Crackle

    kjayakumar

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    I think in the scenario where the customer has an existing ADSL modem + router, one could add the Wiser to the network in LAN (local network) device mode. In this scenario, one could configure the Wiser to be a LAN device with its own static IP (appropriately selected for the local network) and then assign the Wiser's gateway IP to be the customer's existing router. One could then configure the customer's existing router to port forward the desired ports from the external internet to the Wiser on the customer's LAN. This can get hairy so I find it useful to draw the whole diagram and IP addresses and ports so that everything is kept consistent. Oh, and I always forget to disable DHCP on the Wiser when doing this. That's necessary so that there aren't 2 devices on the LAN offering DHCP services.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 23, 2009
    kjayakumar, Apr 23, 2009
    #33
  14. Charlie Crackle

    MichaelCarey

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    What is the current situation for a C-Bus owner/enthusiast/programmer like myself getting hold of a Wiser?
    I have confirmed that my regular local electrical wholesaler cannot supply one to me.
    I'm interested in the Wiser more than a new V4 HomeGate package.

    Michael.
     
    MichaelCarey, Apr 29, 2009
    #34
  15. Charlie Crackle

    NickD Moderator

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    Good question.... and I don't know the answer.

    Your best bet is probably to try and get in touch with your local Clipsal/CIS sales rep.

    Nick
     
    NickD, Apr 29, 2009
    #35
  16. Charlie Crackle

    filpee

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    Sales of the Wiser Home Controller is limited to CIS Integrators (C-Bus pointOne and C-Bus Platinum) only as far as I was aware.

    try the pointOne website for resellers http://www.c-buspointone.com.au/
     
    filpee, Apr 29, 2009
    #36
  17. Charlie Crackle

    DaveDagr8

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    I've been thinking for hours about how to respond to the fact that i can not gain access to the WISER system. Although i probably don't want it and probably wouldn't recommend it to my customers, the fact that i can't purchase it to test is extremly disappointing.

    Is this the road that clipsal now wish to take ? How many other products are going to go down this road. Will we be able to purchase the next generation of equipment, or should i discontinue my use of cbus and look elsewhere for solutions.
     
    DaveDagr8, Apr 30, 2009
    #37
  18. Charlie Crackle

    Figjam

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    I find this particularly interesting.

    You probably don't want this product and probably wouldn't recommend it to your customers yet you are concerned you can't buy it???

    I too was interested in this approach but instead of complaining about it, I decided to ask why. The response made a lot of sense to me.

    C-Bus has been available to anyone through traditional electrical distributors (wholesalers) since it's release in 1994. When you buy from the wholesaler, what service do you get from them with this product? Do they provide any support (other than returning faulty product to Clipsal)? Do they keep the product range in stock? I've shopped with all of the majors and they don't offer me anything other than take my order and my money. Now I know some have gone the extra mile and stock some product so this statement is not a fair assesment of all.

    Wiser seems to be a different product. It is far more complex than all other C-Bus parts and it seems Clipsal have decided to make it available through their PointOne Integrators (not to them). They (the Point One company)will sell the product to me at a similar discount to what the wholsaler will but unlike the wholesaler, will offer me support on the product too. They also say they will take the time to explain the product to me (I've got a fair idea what it does, but I would be interested to hear what they have to say). This lines up a little more with other distributors I use... I get some technical advice. I'll report back how this goes. It looks like an exciting product that I will definitely offer my customers. For your sake Dave, I hope they are not the same customers you are talking to (you haven't said where you are). I'm not a great salesman, but I know that someone offering a product like this, will have the edge over someone who isn't offering the same.
    I think your post is a little reactive. This is a fairly agressive post for your first effort :( Might be worth taking a look at this, even if you only take the time to chat to a PointOne company to see what they have to offer. What have you got to lose ( except sales to me):)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2009
    Figjam, Apr 30, 2009
    #38
  19. Charlie Crackle

    Damaxx

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    I will be very interested to see how you go figjam. I currently have a wholesaler chasing up to see if it can be purchased. I have done my own cbus installtion in my own home with the hope that I can find something to tie into vista media centre on my home theatre pc and control my home from it. This was/is going to be the ulimate answer..... then I find out that I have to jump through a heap of hoops to even part cash and buy one! It funny that I can buy a 4wd without even knowing where to put the water for the windscreen wipers and head straight for a black diamond ski run to drive down but its looking like I cannot buy a plug in piece of equipment for my own home. I hope this is not a sign of things to come.....
     
    Damaxx, Apr 30, 2009
    #39
  20. Charlie Crackle

    Conformist

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    Figjam is right on the money... What has been explained is what Clipsal are doing

    Wholesalers cannot buy this product
    There is no reason why you can't use this. Do you have experience with PICED? This will be an absolute requirement. There are many different levels of ability with C-Bus equipment. Programming C-Bus modules is the base level. You may need to have experience with setting up/changing Ethernet networks and port-forwarding on modems/routers to use aspects of this product,


    Hmmm not quite a fair comparison here but.... If you asked the dealer where you buy your 4WD from if they could service it and show you how to do everything on/with it, chances are they could. This product needs to be configured and programmed. I doubt the counter-jock at the wholesaler could set it up

    You can buy and plug in a piece of equipment for your own home... This isn't such a product.

    Please find a PointOne 'professional' who can offer some advice and service and take it form there. You will enjoy what this wonderful product has to offer.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2009
    Conformist, Apr 30, 2009
    #40
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