CBUS still popular / good for residential in 2020 ?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by countach, Jul 10, 2020.

  1. countach

    countach

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi all,

    I built a house in 2007 and fitted it out with CBUS. Now I'm looking to add a granny flat, and I'm debating with myself whether I should spend the money to keep it all CBUS. With all the new wi-fi and other technologies that have become popular since then, is CBUS still a popular option for residential installs? I don't want to sink more money into the tech if its going to be on the way out.
     
    countach, Jul 10, 2020
    #1
    1. Advertisements

  2. countach

    Ashley

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,104
    Likes Received:
    103
    Location:
    Adelaide, Australia
    The problem with all the consumer home automation products is that they all rely on the cloud to work. So if your internet goes does or the manufacturer turns off their servers, all your lights go off.

    Cbus itself is completely stand alone so will continue to work while ever you have power. You can still control cbus via wifi etc, but if all that fails, you still have a physical switch.
     
    Ashley, Jul 10, 2020
    #2
    Conformist likes this.
    1. Advertisements

  3. countach

    Conformist

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    649
    Likes Received:
    38
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    One of the risks with the new(er) products is will they be serviceable in years to come. I've had to deal with a number of 'systems' (mainly HPM) where product and support evaporated.
     
    Conformist, Jul 10, 2020
    #3
  4. countach

    Ashley W

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    284
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Canberra
    How far is C-Bus off being in the same boat?
     
    Ashley W, Jul 13, 2020
    #4
  5. countach

    countach

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, That's what I'm trying to get a sense of. It doesn't matter how great it is, if the product isn't going anywhere. I'm not saying that's the case, I'm trying to understand what's up.
     
    countach, Jul 14, 2020
    #5
  6. countach

    Ashley W

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    284
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Canberra
    It doesn't seem like it has been anywhere in the past few years, very quiet.
     
    Ashley W, Jul 14, 2020
    #6
  7. countach

    DarylMc

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,140
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    Brisbane, QLD, Australia
    Since you already have a CBus home it seems a small task to use CBus in a granny flat extension.
    Especially if you keep things simple.
    I think the value is there compared to any wireless gear you can buy and it should be a lot more reliable.
    Your current CBus equipment is 13 years old.
    I've been through quite a few wireless routers in that time.
     
    DarylMc, Jul 14, 2020
    #7
    Mr Mark and Conformist like this.
  8. countach

    Pie Boy

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2012
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    16
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Cable is king in my book, you can’t beat the reliability of the pink cable, when it is installed correctly...
    most of the wifi or similar solutions are retro fit bolt on band aid solutions, although they do have there time and place of use In my opinion.
    In any new install I wouldn’t provide any other solution than a cable one and as you have cbus already, for the sake of continuity I would continue with it. I have dealt with hybrid solutions before, they never end well...

    I don’t think the tech is on the way out,
    And With the shac controller or homebridge On a pi interfaced to Cbus the tech is well up to date, the only thing that is going to change tech wise is the front end interface, Dimmers and relays and switches Etc, are all still required and always will be regardless of what the Control system is.
     
    Pie Boy, Jul 14, 2020
    #8
    Mr Mark and Conformist like this.
  9. countach

    Conformist

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    649
    Likes Received:
    38
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    A long way it seems. New development is happening despite the seemingly lack of 'noise' and there are still strong sales from what I hear.
     
    Conformist, Jul 14, 2020
    #9
    Ashley W, Pie Boy and Mr Mark like this.
  10. countach

    pict

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2020
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi all.
    Long time reader, first time poster..

    This is an interesting one... I have been accumulating equipment over the past little while, and we are now a matter of weeks away from installing all the new electrical work in our 'new' terrace.

    I have a relay, two dimmers and a SHAC ready to go, but this conversation (and others like it) are making me nervous.

    Say in 5 years we need to rip out CBUS for whatever reason, retrofitting with traditional wiring is going to cost an absolute bomb.

    Is there a product roadmap? Active development? Are sales strong?
     
    pict, Jul 26, 2020
    #10
  11. countach

    chromus

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2014
    Messages:
    270
    Likes Received:
    35
    Location:
    Perth
    Why would u need to rip it all out?

    Even u did rip it al out, if ur doing it right it the only “hard” bit the the wall chasing to switches and if u conduit those runs which is just good practice then that’s a trifle.

    wireless devices are reaching radio saturation and people will start to see more and more issues as they and their neighbours begin to fight for channels. We already see this in unit complexes and other high density housing.

    Cabled connections are going to see a renaissance for 8K TVs and other high bandwidth applications where streaming will demand > gigabit connectivity.

    I already took the leap and installed 2x Cat6a to all TV points and this is served by a HTPC with a 10GBit card in it.
     
    chromus, Jul 26, 2020
    #11
  12. countach

    Ashley W

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    284
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Canberra
    Chasing is the done thing in Perth, but outside of WA you will find very few places where chasing and conduit is required or good practice. So think the posters concern is very valid and is a fear that I have as the owner of a double story house.
     
    Ashley W, Jul 26, 2020
    #12
  13. countach

    pict

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2020
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    I guess the fear comes down to - are Clipsal likely to retire CBUS any time soon?

    Are they still actively developing the product, and are people even still putting it into new homes?

    Edit - I want to clarify my position - I WANT to install this stuff.. I've spent thousands on it, and love the idea, especially downstream integrations with Homebridge and cool stuff with the SHAC. Just playing devils advocate.

    The house we are restoring stood the test of time for over 130 years, which has got me thinking about future proofing it once more.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
    pict, Jul 27, 2020
    #13
  14. countach

    NickD Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Messages:
    1,404
    Likes Received:
    42
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Hi,

    C-Bus isn't going anywhere just yet... there is significant investment going on right now.

    We are about to release a brand new C-Bus DALI-2 Gateway, which is a big deal for commercial jobs, but increasingly relevant to residential. To support this, the commissioning software has also been rewritten from the ground up... this is a massive undertaking and a serious commitment. There wouldn't be this kind of investment if Schneider were planning on retiring the product.

    Roadmaps are never going to be shared here, because they are always somewhat dynamic, but I will go as far as saying pretty much all the major components of the range are on the roadmap for an update in the next 3-5 years.

    Nick
     
    NickD, Jul 27, 2020
    #14
    Damaxx, chromus, pict and 2 others like this.
  15. countach

    pict

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2020
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks Nick,

    That's really helpful information.
     
    pict, Jul 27, 2020
    #15
  16. countach

    DarylMc

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,140
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    Brisbane, QLD, Australia
    @NickD
    Is colour change something likely to be included with a new Dali Gateway?
     
    DarylMc, Jul 27, 2020
    #16
  17. countach

    DarylMc

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,140
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    Brisbane, QLD, Australia
    It's interesting to see people ask will CBus still be around in the future.
    I put some CBus and DALI into a residential application 10 years ago without any guarantee it would still be around in the future.
    I went to a lot of extra effort like cabling each room's Dali and power back to the switchboard in case everything went pear shaped.
    I'd say of course plan for the worst outcome but it is very hard to predict as many years ahead as people would like when it comes to home wiring.
    The very best plan in my opinion is to have a home where the wiring is accessible and able to be changed.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
    DarylMc, Jul 27, 2020
    #17
    chromus likes this.
  18. countach

    chromus

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2014
    Messages:
    270
    Likes Received:
    35
    Location:
    Perth
    Exactly my thoughts, if you're spending the cash on CBUS, why wouldn't you conduit wall chases and have planned cable ducts. I got looked at sideways by a builder a while back when I specified conduited runs to all power points and light switches, including a few vacant points which I knew the owner would eventually want despite them saying they didnt need them.

    A month after moving in the client wanted all but 2 points populating with a mix on Coax, Cat6 and power and it cost them a couple of hundred $'s for the sparky not a couple of grand.
     
    chromus, Jul 27, 2020
    #18
  19. countach

    NickD Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Messages:
    1,404
    Likes Received:
    42
    Location:
    Adelaide
    It depends what you mean by that... can you elaborate on your requirement/use case?

    Nick
     
    NickD, Jul 28, 2020 at 1:34 AM
    #19
  20. countach

    DarylMc

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,140
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    Brisbane, QLD, Australia
    @NickD
    I've heard the DALI standards have changed in the last 10 years to incorporate colour selection.
    The use case I imagine would be colour changing downlights in the commercial range of downlight fittings.
    Just for my own interest.
    I haven't investigated what products are available lately.

    In any case some new products sounds good.
     
    DarylMc, Jul 28, 2020 at 1:51 AM
    #20
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.