C-Bus Power Outlets - Why not?

With all the fuss over automation etc and a lot of companies jumping to join the internet of things there are quite a few smart outlets being developed. Saw two more new ones today.

When is Clipsal going to embed a relay into a power point with either a wires or wireless C-Bus connection.

Perfect product for new installs - and yes, I know about the plug in modules - but I want them embedded into the outlet.

 

Hi Mykel
I suppose that would be nice for retrofits but at install CBus relays are already fairly cost effective and quite robust.
Much more robust than the things we are likely to see as an alternative.

So many times in the past I questioned the CBus way of doing things and even in my ignorance eventually realised I was wrong.

Zigbee integration would be a welcome addition in my opinion to cover a few more scenarios but preferably not through a Wiser.

 

Would Cbus over Mains not be a future consideration? Have a small retrofit switch inside a plug housing but then have the control sent via encrypted comms between the Cbus network and mains connected device. Security would obviously need to be very strong.

I have a few Z-Wave relays exactly for that reason - a few additional plugs after initial Cbus installation being controlled by Cbus connected Z-Wave controller. I would immediately swap them out if a similar Cbus capable device exists.

Ingo

 

i too have pondered this many a time however abit like DarylMC, always come back to the trusted relay method being the simplest way..

But it all comes down to the application.. Individual gpo control or simple essential/non-essential power control?

Technically what you are asking for could be built with existing components, 5101/2R redesigned to fit into a gpo, albeit with a enclosure at the back, and 2 local toggle buttons on the front..

Which style to offer the gpo in? In the case of clipsal they offer how many hundreds of different gpos, so which one(s) to go with or maybe Retro fittable module? Australian standards and law compliance.. Actual functionality? All these things would have a baring, and considering that clipsal cant seem to get releases of 'new' products (based on existing products) they have advertised for years in advanced right, the chances they are working on anything particularly innovative i would say is slim..

I saw 'Intellisocket' online a while ago and got pretty excited at the possibilities of the extra features such a power consumption, current settings, etc, and so am keeping an eye on them and what they do in this space..

Cheers..

 

This is also an interesting technology.
http://www.tridonic.com/com/en/news-2014-ready2mains.asp

 

TBH I really think you are asking for trouble when doing comms over mains. Sure it can be done, but we already have to do so much work to keep our mains clean as it is, all you need is to have a capacitor in the washing machine, or the VSD in the Air Con to get a bit noisy and you have all sorts of troubles. Unless you start conditioning or filtering your power circuits separately then I would stay away from it. Just think about how many times you see your TV flicker or ect when the fridge compressor kicks in....

I have had quite a few people have me over to try and get their ether over power working because it keeps dropping out and it is generally noisy mains. At work we have a huge number of Clevertronic emergency fittings that all talk over mains and only half of them are online at any one time... But all the systems running on ether - 100%!!

Many people ask me about it and often I say that it could work just fine, but it really may not. Even if you want to do a power condition check, or try an install but either way it could be an expensive experience. If you have a bit of a bad connection with a bit of corrosion or ect on your cable, lets say on the back of a power point on the outside wall and while it will work very happily with 240v at 50hz, try running some comms over it at a much higher frequency and you get issues. Then you have the whole mains isolation thing.....

 

Hi jboer
Was that reply for me?
I think CBus is a robust system.
Comms over mains seem "as" feasible to me as wireless systems or possibly a bit more so.
The folks who developed CBus have without doubt put much thought into the robustness of the network and in my humble opinion they did the right thing.

 

Communicating over wireless is much more reliable than mains. There are just too many interference sources on mains wiring as jboer mentioned for reliable operation. For wireless, you can jump to a different frequency or do spread spectrum to minimise the effect of interference. For mains, there is very little you can do.

The signal won't travel between circuits in your house very well. The circuit breakers will attentuate the signal severely. Your signal will be obliterated by any powerline networking equipment as well.

If mains comms works for you then great but if it doesn't then it will be a nightmare to track down and fix. You may find that the interference isn't even coming from your house. It may be from your neighbour.

 

Not particually, mostly to Ingo's comment of C-Bus over mains. But it was a generally comment on what seemed to be where the conversation was going.

 

Ok, point taken. That leaves normal Cbus wired or wireless connection. The fact remains that everyone, including a Cbus hardliner like me, have some need for a retrofit device and the devices currently on the market like what has been mentioned are very attractive. That said, even my Z-Wave power outlet relays I use I would swap for a Cbus device in a heartbeat if they existed.

 

I very much agree, that is where things like zigbee really should start to be integrated into more things.

I also have an issue with all the wifi devices that are coming out on the market, what a lot of consumers don't know is that a domestic home wifi router or access point is really only capable of handling 10-20 clients after that you can start having problems. By the time you buy 10 wifi plugin relays from Aldi and add a few iPhones, laptops, printer, tv, XBox... you exceed that very quickly..