C-bus integrated Security- Elk M1? Anything else new?

Discussion in 'Homesafe & Security Access & Control' started by jr_away, Aug 17, 2005.

  1. jr_away

    jr_away

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    Earlier this year I posted a question about integrating security systems with C-Bus and was pointed toward Inner Range and Comfort.

    Unfortunately both systems have issues for us- the Comfort would be ideal if only it offered partitions, while the Inner Range 4000 ends up very expensive to do a relatively limited range of integration.

    I was also advised that some other alarms (e.g. from Ness and Paradox) are about to become more C-Bus friendly. I've checked regularly but see nothing new on either website.

    I have however noticed a new Elk M1 alarm that has a programmable RS232 interface that can probably integrate to C-bus in a similar fashion to the Inner Range.

    Does anybody have experience with this, or advice about integrating other security systems with C-Bus? We're wanting 3 partitions, at least 30 sensors, 3 door stations, 5 keypads including at least 1 touchscreen that can be C-Bus as long as it integrates cleanly, access control for 6 automatic garage doors/keystrikes that integrates with the alarm.
     
    jr_away, Aug 17, 2005
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  2. jr_away

    Figjam

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    Figjam, Aug 17, 2005
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  3. jr_away

    UK Household Automation

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    For the price of an entry level Minder Pro why not have three Minder Pro' panels, you could use one as the main unit for integration - the units also have an interface available with FERMAX to provide multiple door entry /entry systems.
     
    UK Household Automation, Aug 17, 2005
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  4. jr_away

    jr_away

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    Thanks for the advice, but I don't really want to have to buy 3 alarm panels to get 3 partitions!

    It really is a shame about partitions because apart from C-bus integration, Comfort/Minderpro has lots of other advantages over the Elk M1. Comfort's speech is far superior- M1's speech is american robotic synthesized, though they've added a cool new recordable voice module. Comfort/Minderpro also offers cleaner door station features, heaps of remote control options (not available from Elk), touchscreen options, and speech through the keypad- M1 has a giant speaker in the keypad but it's only for chimes, you need separate speakers for voice. As for keypads: the M1's is ridiculously large- at least twice as big as any other standard lcd pad I've ever seen before.

    But M1 has up to 8 partitions, a more modern communication bus and it is cheaper to expand. And apparently cool new keypads are on the way.

    After investigation it looks as if it wouldn't be too difficult to program a PAC and the M1 panel to communicate via serial... but I see that Elk now has a list as long as my arm of lighting and automation products for which there are libraries etc to simplify interfacing. No sign of C-bus there. Why not- the M1 is distributed in both Australasia and Europe and I'm told it's selling like hot cakes.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 18, 2005
    jr_away, Aug 18, 2005
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  5. jr_away

    Frank Mc Alinden

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    Hi
    I use Genesis alarm panel . Doesnt yet have a high level interface for CBUS , but im sure if you sign clipsals NDA you could get Genesis to talk to CBUS ......As each Genesis module has a serial interface on boardit would be quite easy to connect a clipsal pc interface ....My Genesis system is an early version which doesnt have the ability to send text messages via the serial port(s)....I use the Genesis 32 way open collector output module and have it connected to a couple of cbus aux input modulesvia relays to get the status of my Pulnix pirs......

    http://www.genesiselectronics.com.au/

    HTH
    Frank
     
    Frank Mc Alinden, Aug 18, 2005
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  6. jr_away

    mrava

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    I personally would stick to C4k.... I install this panel all the time, in your i'd prob. just fire a few aux and use a cbus aux i/p if its not a huge intergrade. The c3/4k is well supported and flexible in programming functions and most importantly end user friendly. I not 100% sure about that NESS ELK panel as it has only just been launched. Another panel that you can try is a digiflex which has been designed by one of the old EDM engineers.
     
    mrava, Aug 18, 2005
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  7. jr_away

    skyline

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    Has anyone integrated, or attempted to integrate functionality with a Tecom panel?
     
    skyline, Nov 28, 2005
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  8. jr_away

    Nathan

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    only with a DGP inc relay units and Cbus Bus couplers reliable but clunky integration
     
    Nathan, Nov 28, 2005
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  9. jr_away

    Nobes

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    I have done the same thing with the Tecom main panel. It does reliably work however it is a very low level integration.
     
    Nobes, Nov 28, 2005
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  10. jr_away

    Caroline Springs

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    Ness D16x C-Bus Enabled Control Panel

    Need some help on this alarm, just released from Ness:

    Ness D16x C-Bus Enabled Control Panel
    http://www.ness.com.au/control.htm

    I called Ness both in Melbourne and Sydney to find out what are the functionalities of this interfase, but the answer was very vague.

    Does any one knows if this alarm has a low or high level of interfase? Is it possible to read the alarm status (i.e. enabled/disabled; night mode, day mode, etc.) from C-bus? Is it possible to use motion sensor to control individual room lights?

    Thanks.
    CS.
     
    Caroline Springs, Dec 8, 2005
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  11. jr_away

    znelbok

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    znelbok, Dec 8, 2005
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  12. jr_away

    Caroline Springs

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    Ness D16x C-Bus Enabled Control Panel

    That's correct, it looks like it is. From Clipsal's C-Bus Enabled web page I quote:

    What are the Benefits of being a C-Bus Enabled Partner ?

    There are many benefits of becoming a C-Bus Enabled Partner, including: -

    Use of the C-Bus Enabled Logo on products, brochures, etc.
    Clipsal Integration Systems provide a product certification process to ensure correct operation with the C-Bus System.
    Clipsal Integration Systems provide technical design and product support to C-Bus Enabled partners.
    Links to partner websites from the Clipsal Integrated Systems Website and articles on the Clipsal Integrated Systems web site about C-Bus Enabled partners.
    Announcement of new C-Bus Enabled products on the Clipsal Integrated Systems web site and in CIS magazines such as Building IQ and Blueprint.
    An on-line forum and knowledge database for C-Bus Enabled Partners.
    Conferences for C-Bus Enabled Partners.
    Access to C-Bus product for testing purposes.
    Advanced notice of CIS developments and early access to new products.


    Given that this Ness alarm is a "Certified" C-bus enabled product, I would expect that Clipsal would provide some support in this regards. Is this correct? From the Clipsal side, can some of you guys tell me what level of interface this product has?

    Thanks,
    CS.
     
    Caroline Springs, Dec 9, 2005
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  13. jr_away

    ashleigh Moderator

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    The Ness D16 is also the Clipsal HomeSafe (the 16 zone version).

    The interface is high level, and you can use security events to trigger lighting actions on C-Bus.

    You can also perform a set of control functions of the panel from a C-Bus device. Right now there are not many (if any) C-Bus devices that offer that function... but in 6 months... it might be a different matter.
     
    ashleigh, Dec 9, 2005
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  14. jr_away

    fleetz

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    Ness M1G and C-Bus interfacing

    I current have a Ness/ELK M1 Gold panel which I am configuring at a test bed level prior to installing it in a new homw which I will be building next year.

    I have a C-Bus interface unit for the Ness M1G currently on order, they are due hopefully to be released for production in the next few weeks. I now want to place an order for the bare essentials C-Bus gear to add to the the test bed so I can continue the test bed integration. Firstly I have to say I am really impressed to date at the robustness of the Ness M1G unit. It was the pending C-Bus interface which swung me over to deciding on the Ness/ELK M1G controller.

    I have been assured by Ness that the functionality and control from the Ness M1G into the C-Bus system is extensive and fully support by Clipsal in it's implimentation. What I want to be able to do at the test bed level is using standard light batton holders and lights (probably 6 of) is to drive some via relay (1) and the others by the dimmers. This will enable me to become familiar with setting up scenes from within the Ness M1G control envirnoment.

    I was thinking that the basic C-Bus bits I would require are as follows

    1 X L5512RVF 12 channel DIN relay unit
    1 X L5508DIA 8 channel DIN relay unit
    1 X SC5034BNL 4 gang C-Bus switch with learn enable

    I am happy to buy what ultimately will be installed in the new house so the price is not necessarily the issue.

    I was wondering if the C-Bus interface will via the M1G RP interface allow C-Bus devices to have their unit address set or do you require a 5500CN network interface? Are there any other essential C-Bus bit required to get the C-Bus bit of my test bed going?

    I am intending to install the Ness M1G system into the new house and have a qualified sparky do the 240V stuff. What of the Clipsal training course might be appropriate to better understand the C-Bus control interface given I will be using a Ness M1G controller? Obviuosly I wouldn't want a course that focused on the Clispal C-Bus controller. Just want to get the need to know stuff on the C-Bus interface and how C-Bus units are configured ie unit address and programming device functionality be it from the device or via the C-Bus.

    Do Clipsal do DIN housing that I can accomodate the relays and dimmers in or is that a 3rd party product? Any recommendations? I will probably have a couple of the relay and dimmer units going into the new house again I don't mind buying what would be the final solution.

    Appreciate your comments and feedback.

    Fleetz
     
    fleetz, Dec 11, 2005
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  15. jr_away

    GCK

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    Yes the New D16X panel from Ness does have a High Level interface to C-Bus.

    One of the biggest limitations is that it can only control 16 C-Bus commands. Maybe this is because it is a 16 Zone panel.

    You can download a full users manual from their website.

    From what I have learnt from Ness the M1 panel is the perfect product once the C-Bus interface is released. I have read some comments about the M1 keypad, however I have been advised there are new keypads to be released early next year, including a touch screen as well as many other new additions that will blow others away.

    I for one can't wait as the features of the panel are mind blowing.

    GCK
     
    GCK, Dec 17, 2005
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  16. jr_away

    Caroline Springs

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    Thanks CGK for your feedback.

    I checked Ness website and the only available file is the brochure for their D16X C-Bus. The user manual is password-locked. Is there any other site where I can download and have a look to their user manual?

    Thanks again,
    CS.
     
    Caroline Springs, Dec 17, 2005
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  17. jr_away

    Ross

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    Howdi Caroline,
    Have a look here.
    http://www3.clipsal.com/cis/pdf_files/5400-Series-Install-Prog.pdf
     
    Ross, Dec 17, 2005
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  18. jr_away

    GCK

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    GCK, Dec 18, 2005
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  19. jr_away

    znelbok

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    Fleetz

    Have you got the M1 working with C-bus yet. Any update or progress you can share

    Mick
     
    znelbok, Feb 21, 2006
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  20. jr_away

    PSC

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    I just spoke to NESS, they are still on backorder (approx 50).

    NESS say a couple more weeks.
     
    PSC, Feb 21, 2006
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