Brivis Heating to C-bus

Hi all

I have just installed a Brivis ducted heater in my house and wanted to connect it to my C-Bus. (I only got the Brivis unit after ringing them to see if it is compatible for connection to a C-Bus system - I was told that it is).

I have a Brivis analogue interface (529). I called Brivis tech-support and they have basically ignored by query. I also rang up C-Bus tech-support and they didn't really want to help either. I am a qualified electrician and have completed the C-Bus courses. I am seeking advice and help from others in the forum.

Thanks,

Ray

 

I have the bravis system in my house and the analogue interface you are talking about. (and of course cbus) I assume you have no networker controller I assume you do not have Air con addon.

Basically you have 3 inputs Heat 1 heat 2 and Circulation Fan

you connect these to 3 dry relay contacts on a cbus relay.

tell me what you what to acheive...

Charles




Brivis 529 Analog Interface for the EMS/MPS Heater

Background
The 529 assembly was designed for controlling MPS and Auto EMS heaters by means other than a Networker, for example Honeywell Programmable Stat.
The 529 assembly supports the use of two thermostats and can operate two zone motors using our 506 module.
Note. The 529 Analog Interface doesn't support the manual thermostat, due to heat anticipator problems. Programmable thermostats don't have this problem.
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Brivis is unable to explain how any one system will operate due to
|the| various configurations possible with this device. We will not be
|able to| identify how the system is set-up, or explain how to
|operate a system| which uses a different type of thermostat. Please refer back to the|
|installer for a full explanation of how to operate your system. |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|



Operation (Installation instructions from page 6 onwards)
The 529 has 24VAC analog inputs which allow a wide variety of devices to control the heater. For example:

24VAC Programmable Thermostats
Home automation systems
Carrier Comfort Zone
Third party products such as remote control via telephone.


(Embedded image moved to file: pic18467.jpg)

The 529 has 3 possible modes of operation (A, B and C). These modes are determined by the 529 automatically by detecting what devices are connected to it, such as the heater and 506 zoning module.

Note. The system is controlled by applying 24VAC to a particular terminal.
In this text it will be referred to as a ?Call?. For example, a call for heat on terminal W1, means 24VAC is being applied to terminal W1. The 24VAC is available from the R terminal.

Operation (cont.)

Mode A. ? Heater Only.
In this mode, only the heater is connected to the 529. This provides the ability to control heating and air circulation.

Heat
The system operates as a two stage heater, Economy and Full rate. The two stages are controlled by calling for heat on the W1 and W2 terminals. See below for the function of each terminal
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| Control Input | Stage / Rate |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| W1 (Only) | Stage 1 / Economy |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| W2 (Only) | Stage 2 / Economy |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| W1 + W2 (Both) | Stage 1 + 2 / Full |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|



If only one stage is operating, the circulation fan will run at a lower speed which is adjustable by the ECON installer parameter of the N-G1/Lo.
If both stages are operating, the circulation fan will run at a higher speed which is adjustable by the HEAT installer parameter of the N-G1/Lo.

Note. If the thermostats that are used don?t support two stages, then W1 and W2 should be bridged together. Thus, running the unit at a full rate not the ECON rate.

Circulation Fan
During a heating cycle, the circulation fan will operate as per normal.
However, if a call is made to the G terminal, the fan will continue to run between heating cycles. The speed at which it runs is adjustable by CIRC installer parameter of N-G1/Lo. During the heating cycle, the G terminal has no effect.
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| Operating State | Fan Speed |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| G (Between Heating Cycle) | CIRC Speed |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| G (During Heating Cycle) | No Effect |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| W1 or W2 | ECON Speed (One stage) |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| W1 + W2 | HEAT Speed (Two Stages) |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|




Operation (cont.)

Mode B. ? Heater and Two Zones.
This mode is similar to A, accept a Brivis 506 zoning module is added to the system to enable the control of up to TWO zones. See below.
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| Control Input | Zone / Stage / Rate |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| W1 (Only) | Zone 1 / Stage 1 / Economy |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| W2 (Only) | Zone 2 / Stage 2 / Economy |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| W1 + W2 (Both) | Zone 1 + 2 / Stage 1 + 2 / Full |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| G (Only no W1 or W2 input) | Zone 1 + 2 / CIRC Fan |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|




Heating
As seen in the table above, the system provides up to two zones which can be individually controlled. Therefore, two thermostats could be used to provide separate temperature control over each zone.

Circulation Fan
The operation of the circulation fan is slightly different to mode A, due to the zoning.
If a call is made to the G terminal while not in a heating cycle (no call for heat on W1 or W2), the system will open ALL zones and the fan will commence. This fan speed is adjustable by the CIRC installer parameter of the N-G1/Lo.

If a heating cycle commences (call for heat on W1 or W2) while the fan is already running, it will continue to do so. However, only the zone corresponding to the W terminal from which the call was made will remain open and the other will close.
For example, a call on the W2 terminal will cause zone 1 to close and the other remain open. Once the heating cycle has finished, both zones will remain in the same state. Therefore, the last zone open will continue to have circulating air.

The zones will only change state if there is a call made to the other W terminal or the call to G is cleared for a couple of seconds. If this call is applied to G again, all zones will open.
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| Operating State | Fan Speed |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| G (Between Heating Cycle) | CIRC Speed |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| G (During Heating Cycle) | No Effect |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| W1 or W2 | ECON Speed |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| W1 + W2 | HEAT Speed |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|



Note. The 506 also has an auxiliary output which is active while the fan is operating. More information regarding this can be found in the 506 installer manual. If the system has been idle for approximately one hour, both zones automatically close.


Operation (cont.)

Mode C. ? Heater and Add-On Refrigeration.
In this mode, the addition of the 506 module provides the ability to connect add-on refrigeration to the system. However, zoning and economy heating is not available in this mode.

Heating
The heater will operate as per the other modes. However, with the addition of add-on refrigeration, the heater will only operate at Full rate and there is no zoning.
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| Control Input | Zone / Stage / Rate |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| W1 (Only) | Full rate heat |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| Y1 (Only) | Cooling |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|



Note. A call for heat on the W1 or W2 terminals will always take priority over cooling.

Cooling
A call to the Y terminal will start the compressor and circulation fan.
However, if this call occurs within 5 minutes of the last cooling cycle, the compressor will remain OFF until this delay has elapsed. This feature is part of the N-G1/Lo control and not the 529.

Circulation Fan
The fan will operate as per mode A, between heating and cooling cycles.
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| Operating State | Fan Speed |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| G (Between Heating/Cooling Cycle) | CIRC Speed |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| G (During Heating/Cooling Cycle) | No Effect |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| W1 | HEAT Speed |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| Y | COOL Speed |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|



Note. The 506 also has an auxiliary output which is active while the fan is operating. More information regarding this can be found in the 506 installer manual.


Operation (cont.)

The LED Displays
There are two LED displays on the 529, Red and Green for Mode and Status respectively. The displays work by flashing a set number of times within a
5 second period.

Mode ? Red
This display indicates what mode the 529 is in (A, B or C). Also, when power is first applied, the Mode display will flash rapidly for 5 seconds.
During this time, the 529 is searching for the heater and the 506 zoning module, if one exists. The display will continue to flash until a heater is found.
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| No. of Flashes | Mode |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| 1 | Mode A |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| 2 | Mode B |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| 3 | Mode C |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| Multiple | Searching |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|



Status - Green
This display indicates the status of the 529?s input. For example it will indicate what the thermostat is calling for.
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| No. of Flashes | Status |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| 1 | W1 |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| 2 | W2 |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| 3 | W1 + W2 |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| 4 | Y |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| 5 | G |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|



Note. Heating and Cooling will take priority over the G terminal.


Installing the 529 Analog Interface

|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Due to the various configurations of this device it is installer's |
|responsibility to explain to the customer exactly how to operate their |
|system. It is impossible for Brivis to instruct the customer how to |
|operate their system because we will not be able to identify the |
|configuration . |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|



Note. If a 506 is going to be used, it must be installed after the 529.

Firstly, ensure power is disconnected from the heater.

Where possible, handle the 529 anaLog Interface via the mounting bracket
and do not touch any componentry.

Remove the screw located furthest away from the N-G1/Lo control, which
fixes the combustion fan housing to the combustion chamber (near gas
valve).

Insert the 529 in between where the fan housing meets the chamber, so
the screw can pass through the 529 bracket. Replace and tighten the
screw, ensuring everything is secure.

Connect the 4 pin plug on the lead provided to the socket on the 529.

(Embedded image moved to file: pic06334.jpg)




Installing the 529 Analog Interface (cont.)


Insert the Red and Black into TW2 and TW1 respectively, on the N-G1/Lo.

Connect the Blue and White wires to the 24VAC and GND respectively, on
the N-G1/Lo. Ensure the tabs are on outer most side of the control.

Note. The Blue and White wires must be connected correctly. If they are reversed, the 529 will call for heat continuously.

If a 506 is used on the system, it must be connected to the tabs on the
529 lead. These tabs need to be angled slightly downwards to ensure they
clear the N-G1/Lo cover.
Double check the connections, and replace the N-G1/Lo cover.


(Embedded image moved to file: pic26500.jpg)


Configuring the N-G1/Lo (Heater)

Before using the system, the NET 506 installer parameter on the N-G1/Lo needs to be set. There are three possible options depending on which mode the 529 is to be in. This is only applicable for the 529 modes B and C.


(Embedded image moved to file: pic19169.jpg)
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| NET 506 Setting | 529 Mode |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| 1 | Mode B ? If only two zones are|
| | required and no Auxiliary output.
| |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| 3 | Mode B ? If two zones and the|
| | Auxiliary output is required. |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|
| 4 | Mode C ? Refrig and Auxiliary|
| | output |
|------------------------------------+------------------------------------|



If no 506 is connected to the system, the NET 506 install parameter should be set to 1.

Note. If any changes are made to the NET 506 parameter, the system must be fully RESET to ensure the changes are immediate.

For information on how to set the installer parameters on the N-G1/Lo, refer to the Heating Installers Manual.

Once everything is completed, then the unit can be tested and commissioned.
Set the heater running and test that the unit functions properly, and advise the customer on the full operation of the installed system.

 

are you talking 24vAC or DC control signals

are we waiting long !

Charles

 

is it good to control it from thermostat interrnal relays?
thank you

 

Looking at getting a brivis heating(new StarPro PLUS) and cooling unit(Brivis ICE add-on refrigerative cooling system)with four zones . I guess that if I have the Networker controller for the brivis unit I won't be able to use the 529 Analog Interface ??? if so has anyone intergrated the new brivis unit to Cbus and can you steer me in the right direction. I don't want to buy the networker controller if later down the track it won't be any good to use with cbus.

 

correct you can not use both

 

Bump

Has anyone installed the lastest Brivis StarPro PLUS with Brivis ICE add-on refrigerative cooling system. This is what I have researched so far,

1. The networker controller is removed and a 529 Analog Interface is installed

2. Need to also install a 506 interface module for the add on cooling

3. install a 5070THPRPG thermostat

4. control the 4 zone damper motors using a 4 channel relay module

The unit is not purchased yet and looking at advice before I go ahead.

I haven't come across any one that can do the installation of the heating and cooling with the cbus components .
So my options are 1. to get the heating and cooling working and as I get more experience down the track, interface the unit to cbus.Or 2. do the installation with cbus intergation now. My cbus wiring is taking a little longer than I thought because I am doing most of my wiring in my spare time and I think I will be up to the heater control cct in about one week time.hint hint

thanks

 

Why not run the pink C-Bus cat5 to where your HVAC unit will be, leaving a few metres slack just in case, then have the HVAC system installed, and worry about doing the actual integration when the bigger stuff is done?

That way if you want to do all the "tinkering" yourself, it gives your more time to do all your research, and then buy the necessary Brivis and CIS electronics once you've come to a solid answer, and install these parts of the system yourself.

But from everything I've read above, if you connect one of the new 8ch ELV relay modules (L5108RELVP), to the inputs on the 529 board, you'll have the ability to fully control your brivis system from C-Bus, and it'll be a cheap way to connect the system as well. 8 channels will also be an ideal number for your needs as well, as you can use one to control the W1 terminal, one for the Y1 terminal, one for the G terminal, four for your zone dampers, and have one left over as a spare in case you ever need it.

 

thanks Darpa for the quick reply ......the 5070THPRPG thermostat has the relays on board for the WYG control , will I have the same level of flexibility if I go down that track?

 

Hi Mick,

Did you ever get this working? If so with method did you take?