Brightgreen Dimmable LED Downlights

Discussion in 'C-Bus Wireless Hardware' started by P2T, Aug 16, 2009.

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  1. P2T

    P2T

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    Hi Guys,

    Stumbled across this website today and wanted to know if anyone has had any experience with this product (particularly in regards to dimming).

    http://brightgreen.net.au/

    Specifically mentions compatability with C-BUS (and other HA products)

    I am installing wireless CBUS switches and am not sure whether the system would work (although I think it would) - not a sparky so having trouble interpreting the wiring diagram - http://brightgreen.net.au/download_brochure.php?file=brochure/MDIM_Brochure_1.0.pdf)

    Any thoughts welcome?

    Regards
    P2T
     
    P2T, Aug 16, 2009
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  2. P2T

    Darpa

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    From looking briefly at the brochure you've attached, no, you would not be able to use C-Bus wireless dimmers.

    You would either need to use a 0-10v analogue module, or a non-cbus 10v power supply with a 100k pot.

    The LED module listed above takes 26v power to power the lights, and uses a 0-10v control signal to then adjust the dimming level of the LEDs.
    Therefore, you would need a wired C-Bus network in addition to the wireless (even if it's just a few components), and purchase one or more of the L5504AMP modules (these are hard-wired 4 channel 0-10v output modules) which can then feed the desired dimming level to the LED controller.

    Hope this helps.
     
    Darpa, Aug 16, 2009
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  3. P2T

    ashleigh Moderator

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    It appears that this device takes an analogue 0-10 V control input to set brightness.

    A WIRED cbus analogue output unit would drive it. C-Bus wireless won't.
     
    ashleigh, Aug 16, 2009
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  4. P2T

    P2T

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    Thanks Guys - appreciate the responses.

    In any case given the cost of these units (about $150 per light) and the fact that I would only save 20w per light (planning on using 35W IRC Halogens and the direct replacement LEDs are still 12w) - I don't think it is a viable for many people - 35W IRCs still seem like the best way forward imho.

    Cheers
    P2T
     
    P2T, Aug 16, 2009
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  5. P2T

    ashleigh Moderator

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    20W - and lets assume electricity is 15 cents/ kWHr (which is on the high side but what the heck).

    Assume the lamp cost is $100 more than a halogen.

    So $100 in power buys you about 100 / 0.15 = 667 kW hours of power. That 20 watts differential means you'd have to run the lamp for 667000/20 = OVER 33,000 hours to make it pay. (3.8 YEARS of continuous running. Or if run for (say) 8 hours a day - 11.4 years)

    Seeing as a LED lamp has a typical lifetime of 20,000 to 50,000 hours, it is touch and go if it would ever pay for itself over its lifetime.

    Naturally, these figures are rubbery. If the difference in cost is greater (which it is), the payback period gets worse. If the cost of power is lower (which it is, but not always much), the payback period gets worse.

    Looks like those lamp costs need to come down a little :)
     
    ashleigh, Aug 17, 2009
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  6. P2T

    CC&C

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    The calculator on the Brightgreen site doesn't mind bending the truth! I entered 30 down lights at 4 hours per day. I'm making a leap of faith that the calculator is assuming I have 50W halogens (i have 35W IRC's) and they use 55W (there is no obvious info as to what their assumptions are). At 30 lights x 55W x 4 hours x 31 days = 204 kWh per month. The site tells me that my cost is $50 per month to run the 30 lights so I must be paying 25 cents per kWh! I wish these companies would be a little bit more honest. Interestingly, if you tick GU10's as the type of lights then the payback is 8.25 yrs instead of 6 years for MR16's. More amazing trickery.
     
    CC&C, Aug 19, 2009
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  7. P2T

    ashleigh Moderator

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    Yeah. I didn't take into account replacement halogen lamps. If you did that, the payback period roughly halves (rough as guts here).

    In a domestic install, its really not a good buy. In a commercial install, though, the cost of the man-with-the-ladder is so high that replacing a single halogen (after what... perhaps 6 months) will pay for the LED fitting within a year. (Assume the maintenance costs you $100.... payoff is very short).

    My feeling: commercial yes - residential no. Residential cost needs to get down to about $75 to $100 and then its worth looking at.
     
    ashleigh, Aug 19, 2009
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  8. P2T

    CC&C

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    At $150 a pop I can't see how they can compete with commercial fluoro downlights so they aren't even a valid commercial competition either. The 21W LED was 135mm diamter so they're even the same size. LED's will get there, but it's still a few years away. It's just the "environmental", look at me, as to why people would buy them at the moment.
     
    CC&C, Aug 19, 2009
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    Spaghetti

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    I just bought Brightgreen D12's for $99 and they came universally dimmable out of the box- http://brightgreen.net.au/products_applications.php\

    Power is also ~$0.28 at 1-8pm in Sydney. This gives me a cost of $57.12 a month for CC&C's scenario below. The Brightgreen website says its $51.48. I guess it accounts for some off peak too without maintenance.

    Also the CRI of these is 87. That puts the light quality of fluros to shame.

    I'm a convert
     
    Spaghetti, Apr 23, 2010
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  10. P2T

    Glazza

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    What cbus dimmer are you running these off? Do you have a single light per channel?

    Also, where were you able to obtain for $99?

    Cheers
    David
     
    Glazza, Apr 25, 2010
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  11. P2T

    Spaghetti

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    Hi Glazza,

    These are all via Cbus wireless with only one channel for 8 lights wired in series. I got the $99 price from MM Electrical (TLE etc).

    I am not using the D12's any more though as they have a D900 out which you can see here:
    http://selector.com/au/suppliers/brightgreen/products/brightgreen-d900-led-downlight

    After seeing that many crap 50W halogen claims from the likes of Neco and LED central for MR16s punching out 300lm vs the 900lm for a halogen this is a welcome relief.
     
    Spaghetti, Jul 20, 2010
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    Glazza

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    Thanks - so I take it you have tried the D900's and they are good!!

    I'm in New Zealand, so hopeful that they will be here soon.

    What sort of price are the D900's in Australia?

    Cheers
    David
     
    Glazza, Jul 20, 2010
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  13. P2T

    samluo

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    most 0-10V dimmable ballasts and LED drivers ouput about 1-2ma signal current, so both the wire and wireless Cbus module can control.
     
    samluo, Jul 28, 2010
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  14. P2T

    Newman

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    I think you mean that the D12's are wired in parallel, and then connected to the channel.
    I've contacted both M&M and L&H, the two distributors listed on the Brightgreen website, in the past week and neither of them had ever even heard of the brand Brightgreen and knew nothing about their products. Their systems turned up no results for Brightgreen, D12 or D900. I left a message on the Brightgreen website asking where to buy these units and had no response.

    Whilst I've seen a demo of the D900's I'm starting to think that they're vapourware... either way it seems that Brightgreen have some pretty fundamental market communication issues to sort out.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2010
    Newman, Jul 28, 2010
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  15. P2T

    lewisf

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    Just thought I would add a few extra considerations to the argument on both sides from an electrical contractors point of view . 1) Halogen down lights have a linear light output to power usage ratio and bright green led's increase efficacy (efficacy = lumens per watt) the more you dim them. 2) regular LV transformers have power losses in the form of heat output that affect calculations ie 55 or 60 watts for a LV when it has a 50w globe. 3)Halogens produce a large amount of heat that can melt metal fittings and even set fire to your house. 4) Heat generated by Halogens needs to be counteracted by more Air con power usage (1 12v Halogen imput = approx 55w light of which is approx 45w heat. 45w X 17 Down lights is over 1 HP of heater that need to be counteracted.) note that in winter extra heat is good thing but if you're like me the AC runs on cool 5 times more than it does on heat. 5)Bright green LED's can't be dimmed down to an almost off level (I would estimate they drop to about 35% of max but I havn't put my lux meter on them yet) 6)when dimming LED's remember that you need more than one light on a dimmer because the flicker if they don't meet or are close to the minimum power rating (unsure of c-bus channels but clipsal leading/trailing edge dimmers are 20w and up and universals are 10w and up and neither will dim 1 D900/1000 or D12 without flickering[2 or more are usally fine]) 7)Bright Green D900's only angle 15 Degrees so if you have angled ceilings more than that they won't point straight down. 8) Bright Green LED's Life span is 50,000 hours and at the end of that 50,000 hours they still work they are just not as bright (70% I believe). 9)Bright Green LED's come with a 5 year guarantee.(try getting that on a Halogen fitting. (I should know I am constantly asked to change halogen Globes and or transformers). 10)Bright Green LED's produce no UV light so that means no fading (and no mozzies I've been told but I havn't tested that). I'm sure there is more but that's a start.

    BTW I have no connection with BRIGHT GREEN except that I've been buying and installing there products for over 3 years and have found them to be fantastic.
     
    lewisf, Feb 12, 2011
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    Green Thumbs

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    I had no trouble on Brightgreen's website finding my nearest distributor. When I contacted my closest lighting store they knew all about the D900 and personally recommended them to be the best led lights available on the market.
     
    Green Thumbs, Feb 16, 2011
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  17. P2T

    NickD Moderator

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    Cool.. I just went to the website and it directs me to MM, Rexel, L&H, or CNW for Adelaide.

    On that subject...the home page at http://brightgreen.net.au/index.php has an animation which cycles through 3 different pages, each of which has what looks like it should be a link at the bottom.

    Do any of these work for anyone? I'm interested in the "Compare" one, which claims to offer a comparison between the D900 and its direct competition, but I can't find this info anywhere on the Brightgreen site.

    Nick
     
    NickD, Feb 16, 2011
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  18. P2T

    ashleigh Moderator

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    ashleigh, Feb 16, 2011
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    stitchintime69

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    Hi All,

    Thanks for the posts. I've been looking for some new LED downlights for a while now. I went to the Brightgreen site and found a retailer without a prob.

    I got the D900 for $129, not sure if that's good. Was able to put them in myself as there was no wiring. The light quality and output is so much better than the LEDs I bought last year.
     
    stitchintime69, Mar 8, 2011
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  20. P2T

    admin_vb On Holiday

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    I thought it was odd that there were several new users recently who have registered and made a single post telling us all how great the Brightgreen LEDs are. After some investigation it has been discovered that two of them share the same IP Address and another is directly associated with Brightgreen but has not disclosed it.

    From the Forum rules:
    If these forum users had said that they were affiliated with Brightgreen, had tested their products with C-Bus products, and found them to be compatible, then that is fine. In fact, knowing which products do or don't work with C-Bus products is a good thing, and should be encouraged.

    Deceptive activity on the forum will not be tolerated. These users have been banned.

    This thread is now closed.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 8, 2011
    admin_vb, Mar 8, 2011
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