Boxed into a corner....LED strip lights on dimmer ch?

Have a couple of strip LED that found there way onto dimmer channels which happened shuffling relay and dimmer loads around. The two loads I am caught out with are on 5508D1A dimmer channels.

DMX and Dali now to late to implement given the stage of construction.

Best case scenario is hopefully just using the dimmers channels as switch and locating a power supply that has input driver capacitance of <300nF and primary current <200W. Driving LED strip warm white max is 5 metres at 14.4watts per metre (72watts) and the other channel is 3 metres again at 14.4watts per metre (42watts) on the secondary sides.

Anyone know of a suitable power supply that might fit the bill? Finding power supplies that quote the input driver capacitance are impossible to find.

Not an ideal situation but having the strip LED's switch on/off rather than dim is at least an acceptable option. I realise there are RGB strip LED's that use wireless remotes for dim and colour control. This is a possible option providing I can locate a suitable power supply that will play nicely on a 5508 channel used as a switch rather than a dimmer.

Any ideas?

Regards,

Fleetz

 

Hi Fleetz
You could try calling MELEC

 

Thanks Daryl.....they looking interesting. Will definitely call them Monday.

Regards,

Fleetz

 

I think you are SOL - I have given up on LED's with C-BUS now. There is no way someone can justify ripping out functional 8ch dimmers that need to be replaced by two dimmers (of same physical size) which require more boards to be installed and major changes to wiring.

The cost benefit ratio is just not there - long live halogen!

 

Hi Mick,

The road to LED on the 5508 has been a bit of a challenge no question......but....getting some advise from senior forum members here, spending a lot of time researching, spending some money on buying LED luminaries and lots of testing has me lot more confident than what seems a bad experience your side.

Probably tried a total of 20 different downlights, E27's, GU10's, flouro style LEDs, bayonet style etc etc. ......only the ones that I seemed to be able to prequalify. Have to say a lot of these didn't past muster. But some did and extensive testing seemed to hold these up ok.

In the current application which is for my daughter and SIL I put in the effect and cost to ensure they would get a positive outcome. For example where they had 1, 2, 3,4 or 6 downlights in their areas I bought 6 of the best performing downlights and loaded and tested every qty combination over time at various loads. Made sure any single LED load application didn't require load correction etc.

GU10 for example couldn't find any suitable performing GU10 for the multiple parallel up/down front lights, swapped those from dimmer to relay. So I definitely had to make comprises.

With out a doubt the excercise was time consuming, painful and expensive. I have a big tub full of luminaries that are horrible on C-bus 5508.....But found sufficient LEDs that play nicely.

I did a bit of a detailed review on the downlights on the forum a few months back with my findings and finally DL selection.

I have began to communicate with MELEC distributor (thanks DarylMc) here is SA and it appears that two dimmer circuits I boxed myself in when I swapped out some relays for dimmers may provide a solution for dimming LED Strips (down to 13%) on a 5508. Again I will buy in and test to prove to myself, but they make positive claims if you use XYZ power supply with ABC LED strip with a 5508 then you will get qualified performance (down to 13% and no flicker)........if I can prove that then it is a result as theory are accent bench and bulkhead lights.

If this proves positive then 44 of the 46 loads will be LED luminaries that I know will work in the type and quantities for each load. 32 will be on dimmers, 12 on relays.....the other two are fan controllers.

I gave myself a chunk of time, spent a bit of coin and a chunk of testing to get where I am today. It has been painful to say the least but it is for family so I just kept going until a suitable solutions could be found. It's what Dads do

Thanks to those senior forum members that help guide me in some nice directions......otherwise I might still be testing prospective LED luminaries.

One hopes that over time more manufactures consider LE dimmers and C-Bus and the like in their LED designs.......unfortunately the majority of manufacturers are chasing the the volume and has to be be cheap market to get market share. That said there are some that raise the bar and produce a premium product that work with products like the 5508 unit. Comes with a slight premium in price but that will be made up in power savings especially when electricity prices hit 40c/KWh

Just sharing my experience Mick.......halogen would have much easier than the path......no bloody journey I have been on and still going with trying out the MELEC LED strips dimming. So I know where you are coming from.

Regards,

Fleetz

 

Would you say you have spent more on luminairs and assoc costs than say replacing the dimmer with a universal dimmer? You need to be careful that you monitor your costs otherwise the changeout may have been the optimum solution.

Don't forget that the old dimmer has value and can be sold as well to recovery some of the costs.

Thanks as always for your feedback

 

Hi Mick,

You make good points.

In my case I probably spent $800 or so on luminaries I would estimate that around 70% are are going to be used in the job being ones or multiple one that passed all the testing.

Don't forget I mentioned that where there were multiple LEDs types in different areas and after buying one I would purchase what was required to test how many actually go onto that load to ensure I was getting repeatable performance with actual loads.

I found that once I had found a suitable LED that they worked fine in the multiples. So I probably blew around $300 ish on my tub of unusable for the 5508 application.

It was more the time I spent in research, procuring and testing.....in this case a labour of love.......and I am now retired. So I did not put a value on that because am doing this for my daughter and SIL (and two grandsons)

Yes definitely could have gone the universal path but with 4 dimmers that could have have turned into 8 universals. Another housing more RCBOs as I have one for each output unit with a protected neutral. More wiring.

If it was a paying job your way makes some sense......but...the LEDs still would require some level of testing as there as you know a lot of very indifferent quality and performing products out there. A universal doesn't garantee success......certainly improves the range of available options though.

It has been an interesting excercise and an eye opener at the same time. I would where possible not only test what worked and what didn't but irrespective part of my evaluation was where possible to open the up and see what their design, construction and how they were manufactured. I come from an electronic engineer background of some 45 years and I have to say what I saw in some of what I bought scared the hell out of me. Needless to say they are not in the job.....amazing the difference in quality. Most look the same from the outside but by heck there are amazing differences on the inside.

Anyway hope that better explains the path I took.

Regards,

Fleetz

 

I have a mix of dimmers and relay circuits for down lights. In my testing a poorly dimming LED ended up getting placed on a relay circuit.

 

fleetz, I hear your pain and have tried to recover several projects that have had cheap overseas downlights installed with unacceptable results.

Very interested in your findings for a leading edge dimmable strip light. I'm sure the last group I was with had one, but have had no success finding it again. It was at the CEDIA/Design Build 2010 (?) in Melbourne.

 

Hi Memphix,

Happy to share my experience.

At DarylMc suggestion I tried MELEC. Had a bench 5508 LE and some dimmer channel control and went out and bought a MELEC ML-PSD30 30W dimmable power supply and based on one of the applications I had one of their 4.8W/metre LED strips 5 metres long. Connected and loaded it up and here is what I found.

With the full load of 24W LED strip it dimmed quite nicely both up from zero and down from 100%. The minimum dim level wasn't super low however very acceptable.

So one of my LED runs which was approx 4.4metres was good to go. I had another run which was going to be around 2.4metres so I cut the length I had around 2.5m so I could test the shorter length but also be able to use that in the job. The dimming performances was not any where near as good on the shorter length. The minimum dim level was about twice as bright as the full length.

MELEC does state for best performance you should load the power supply up to its max rating ie approx 80% of rating. So I was expecting there to be a difference.

With the success of the 30W PS on the 24W...approx 80% load, I purchased the MELEC ML-PSD20 20W and connected that to the 2.5m (12W load) length of strip LED and it worked extremely well, better than the 30W supply that was fully loaded. But they were definitely closer enough to sign the results off as a success for both applications I have.

I subsequently swapped out a non dimmable LED 30W supply in a fancy 13 corn LED multi drop foyer entrance light. Max load was 22W and the corn LEDs were actually dimmable so that was a nice result as that load was up on a 55088 channel. Only thing I needed to do was add a load correction device as the triac would switch off when the load was turned off. It would flicker a bit.

MELEC also do a dimmable 80W supply but not tested that as I only had short strip LED runs...so longer runs are likely to be accommodated as well. Probably with a slightly varied result as I found I had between the 20W and 30W supplies.

I am actually fitting the PS and LED strips off this week in the application I have.

Hope this helps......again thanks to Daryl for pointing me in the MELEC direction. Save me hunting around in the minefield!

Regards,

Fleetz

 

Hi fleetz
Hopefully the products will work out well.
I just want to say I have no ties to MELEC.
I've only used 2 of their products and not with CBus.

My local wholesaler put me onto them as a reasonable brand for halogen down light replacements.
I know another contractor who uses a lot of the retrofit kits to upgrade circular fluros.
Haven't heard anything bad yet.

Their website is quite good and I was pleased that they were willing to discuss the possibility of using DALI for dimming on their retrofit kits.
So that is why I had a feeling they may be able to help you out.

 

Hi Daryl,

Understood.

I too have no affiliation with MELEC.....same as you just sharing experience and knowledge.

Regards,

Ian

 

Just a quick follow for members information.

Have the MELEC strip LEDs and their drivers now installed in two locations in our daughter and SIL new house build. Please to report they are happy little campers with their strip LED's performance on a 5580D1A 8ch dimmer.

They dim a treat just juggle the driver size to maximise the load as the dimming performance improves as you match the load to approx 80% of the drivers rating.

I also found that the MELEC driver I installed in a fancy 13 corn cob LED pendant fitting require a load correction device to enable the load to turn completely off. Once fitted no issue.

Very happy with their products and how it got me out of a tight spot which in the end was without too much compromises. Thanks again to DarylMc for the pointer....owe you a beer!

Cheers,

Fleetz