Blind Control Using 12 Channel Relay

Has anyone used a 12 channel relay to operate blinds? So far I have 1 channel on the relay dedicated to "Blind 1 Up" and 1 channel to "Blind 1 Down" - obviously I can't run the risk of having both channels operate at the same time otherwise I will damage the blinds...Anyone know of a way around this?

I know there is now a C-Bus Shuter Relay available but just try getting them in Ireland

Cheers,

Conor

 

There is a CIS Application Note how to do this, and it has been discussed on the forum here also. You need 2 change-over relay channels per blind/shutter (or one change-over relay channel and one standard relay channel per blind/shutter) to build in the required interlock and delay function for motor control. I have the doc here somewhere and can email it to you (it's on public release). Or no doubt contact Clipsal Tech Support and they will send it to you.

Actually I prefer this method over using the shutter relay. Pay attention in another application note (07-001-1) to using a mains rated 470nF capacitor across the motor terminals to save risk damage to the relay contacts. I bought the capacitor but didn't install it, and unfortunately the inevitable eventually happened (I think the inrush current welded a change-over relay contact closed!)

EDIT: The Application Note for shutter control isn't on the CIS website, perhaps it can be posted there by one of our forum Clipsal operatives?

 

There are three ways of preventing both channels from being on.

One is to use a C-bus change over relay

the other is to use software (ie PAC)

The second is not highly recommended as the primary means of preventing both channels being on.

The third solution is to use some external off the shelf change over relays (mains rated coil and contacts) and use two standard relay channels to drive the two change over relays. These will be much cheaper than buying a C-bus CO relay, but will obviously take up more room in the cabinet - and you still don't get the delay required (unless you get a fancy on with a delay make setting)

Mick

 

I have achieved this when the changeover relays were not around using a C-Touch for the logic control. Eight individual roller blinds in one room with individual / group control. Happy to share the code.

Using changeover relays would be safer.

I have this little niggle in the pit of my stomach that someday, someone - knee high with little fingers will press the override buttons on the controller and lock individual relays to drive both ways at the same time.

(Do not enter that room and whatever you do - DO NOT press those buttons to make the pretty lights come on.)

 

My gripe with shutter relay is the timer, the UP timer and DOWN timer must be the same value. And there's no possible fix available in Toolkit because this is a hardware limitation. When using CO relays you can configure different UP and DOWN timers.

For example (this is how I like to setup shutter control). When using CO relays you can configure a short press (say 10 seconds) on the UP key to give you a number of interim shutter stop positions on the way to FULL UP, and configure a short press on the DOWN key to give you a longer timer action (say 30 seconds). In application this means a single short press UP shutter goes 1/3rd the way up, another short press UP it goes to 2/3rd the way up, and a 3rd short press it goes FULL UP. A short press DOWN at any point and the shutter will go FULL DOWN whatever position the shutter happens to be at. Also, long press UP or DOWN and the shutter will move in that direction until release.

As far as I know you just can't do that with the shutter relay (i.e. set different times for UP/DOWN actions). There might be a way to do it using logic, if so that is beyond me.

The thing I like about the shutter relay over using CO relays is the simplicity of the local toggle action. You just need to press the UP or DOWN button on the shutter relay for the shutter to do what you want. For local toggle using CO relays you really need to think about it to get the required action, and you risk doing something wrong i.e. impossible for WAF.

For shutter relay v2 I hope you can build separate UP and DOWN timers into it!

BTW. As for my welded CO relay contact. I had a 0.5 sec delay built in and got 12 months reliable service from it without the 07-001-1 capacitor, and then one day I didn't. I had the capacitor for 11 months and didn't install it. I wish I had

 

brodricj you can do what you want with a Shutter Relay using some careful programming in the key input unit. Try this:

Shutter relay
On the Failsafe tab, Set up the Shutter Relay so that the failsafe timer is 31 seconds.
On the Global tab, make sure Level Translation mode is turned on.

Key Unit
- Global tab
Program the Ramp 2 rate as 30 seconds
- Key Functions tab
Program the Up key as Ramp Recall 1, Retrigger Timer, Idle , Recall 2
Program the Down key as Ramp Off, Idle, Idle, Recall 2
- Blocks tab
Program Recall 1 as 100%
Program Recall 2 as 2%
Program Timer 1 as 10 seconds
Program the Expiry as Recall 2
Tick the boxes to link the two keys to the correct block/group

This will give you the following behaviour:

• A short press, and any subsequent short presses, of the Up key will run the blinds in the open direction for 10 seconds each time (Note: Once the Shutter Relay thinks that the blinds are at the top of their travel any more presses of the Up key will not operate the relay).
• A short press of the Down key will close the blinds completely. This will still work even if the blinds are stopped part-way.
• A long press of either key will run the blind in that direction until the key is released.

How this works:
When you briefly press the Up key you get a Short Press key event followed by a Short Release key event. The Ramp Recall 1 event starts ramping the Group Address to 100% at the Ramp 2 rate (30 second rate). The Short Release key event starts the 10 second timer. When the 10 second timer expires it issues a Recall 2 which sets the level to 2%. Level Translation in the Shutter Relay unit interprets this as a Stop command. This opens the blind in 10 second steps.

When you briefly press the Down key the Short Press of the key gives you the Ramp Off event which ramps the Group Address to 0% at the Ramp 2 rate (30 second rate). This closes the blind.

When you press and hold the Up key the Ramp Recall 1 event starts ramping the Group Address to 100% at the Ramp 2 rate (30 second rate). When you release the key the Long Release event will issue a Recall 2 which sets the level to 2%. Level Translation in the Shutter Relay unit interprets this as a Stop command.

When you press and hold the Down key the Short Press of the key gives you the Ramp Off event which ramps the Group Address to 0% at the Ramp 2 rate (30 second rate). This sets the blind closing. When you release the key (after holding it down for more than 400ms) the Long Release event will issue a Recall 2 which sets the level to 2%. Level Translation in the Shutter Relay unit interprets this as a Stop command.

 

conor1, the on-line C-Bus Shop in the UK seems to be selling Shutter Relays.
http://www.cbus-shop.com/product_info.php?cPath=161_26&products_id=647

 

Newman, thanks very much. Yes, your configuration summary does ring a bell how I configured TK for shutter relay control but it didn't give me the functionality I had when CO relays were used for shutter control. I'll need to look at it again more closely and see where I might have deviated.

Certainly something is weird because the LED's on the key unit don't always agree with what the shutter is doing. When I was using CO relays, the LED on the key unit would blink (in response to timer function) whenever the shutter was in motion, and that made sense. When using the shutter relay, the LED on the key unit might remain on indefinitely without the shutter doing anything, or it might be off when the shutter is in motion, or it might be on when the shutter is in motion. I haven't been able to nut out the logic of the key unit LED's when using the shutter relay. Key unit LED indications were self-evident when running timers with CO relays.

 

thanks

thanks everyone for your help ,after considering eveyones comments i decided to use shutter relays all working fine.

 

Thanks for letting us know Conor. Always good to hear that something has worked out well.