Best practice for C_Bus over ethernet ??

Discussion in 'C-Bus Wired Hardware' started by noyzey, Sep 11, 2019.

  1. noyzey

    noyzey

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    Hi Guys

    I have a spare port on an ethernet switch located at a property gate. This switch is connected to the home network and is currently running; gate intercom, IP relays and a CCTV camera. The client wants to add lights near this switch location, but we are unable to run power or c-bus control cable back to the house (without $1000s of ripping up the driveway). I'd like for these lights to be available on the C-Bus network.

    I have a NUC permanently onsite and I understand I can run Schedule plus to bridge the two networks using two CNI's. I added "track group2" logic commands to schedule plus and I've tested this on the bench in my workshop and it works well if the software is running. But this seems flakey! If the PC is doing an update, or somehow the schedule plus application isn't running, then this doesn't work.

    Is there a better way?
     
    noyzey, Sep 11, 2019
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  2. noyzey

    Ashley

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    Assuming you only need 100M ethernet at the gate, this only requires 2 of your 4 pairs. Just split the cable and use the other 2 pairs for your cbus connection.
     
    Ashley, Sep 11, 2019
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  3. noyzey

    znelbok

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    seems a bit kludgy, but it will work. I suppose you could use one of those Ethernet sharing adapters that go at both ends of the Ethernet cable and instead of having Ethernet on both, pass C-Bus on one - would look a lot neater as an installation.

    https://www.4cabling.com.au/cat-5e-cable-splitter-data-data.html

    I really think it is time that Clipsal came out with an Ethernet option - something to bridge networks together over Ethernet. This has been talked about and discussed so many times over the years (that and using fibre for longer distances and underground runs) that it seems like there is enough of a demand.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
    znelbok, Sep 11, 2019
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  4. noyzey

    noyzey

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    I have thought about using a ethernet over a single pair on the cat6 cable. I've used the 2n version a few times for intercom door stations. So, I think it's my only option. i am concerned about the two data streams (C-Bus and whatever the ethernet is muxed into) running within the one cable. I think there's huge potential for RFI between the pairs.

    It would be nice to have a C-Bus CNI option that could be used as a network bridge.
     
    noyzey, Sep 11, 2019
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  5. noyzey

    Ashley

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    Yes :)

    Yes.

    Yes. I'm sure we could write a book on the things Cbus could do better. But we are stuck with what we have.

    The cable is designed to minimize interactions. Gigabit ethernet runs 4 parallel streams down a single cable just fine.

    Anyway, it's simply and cheap to try!
     
    Ashley, Sep 12, 2019
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  6. noyzey

    NickD Moderator

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    You say you are unable to run power... does that mean all the gear that's at the gate is power by PoE?

    How are you planning to power the light?

    Nick
     
    NickD, Sep 12, 2019
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  7. noyzey

    noyzey

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    LOL. The Property Gate motor has mains power, which is powering the POE switch. A separate feed from this will be run via a 2ch C-Bus relay to the garden lights.
     
    noyzey, Sep 12, 2019
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  8. noyzey

    jboer

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    So if you really want to use ethernet to control things with C-Bus there are ways and means, I have had decent amount of success with just using a simple TCP relay (for example: https://www.robotgear.com.au/Produc...annel-16Amp-Relay-Module-with-Ethernet-ds1242 ) and then mapping the commands in your NAC to send an HTTP or TCP command when the C-Bus group changes. Works pretty well, that board even has inputs that do the same thing so could even put buttons at the gate if wanted.

    Edit: Also the above board might be a bad example of a 'simple' TCP relay, but it would certainly do what you need, there are heaps on E-Bay, I have used a bunch of stock that I had from Electus (Jaycar), but also something like this would be easier to use out of the box too: https://au.element14.com/brainboxes/ed-038/i-o-module-3-digital-input-30vdc/dp/2383210
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
    jboer, Sep 12, 2019
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  9. noyzey

    bmerrick

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    Hey Noyzey,

    You mentioned you had a logic capable engine there so in similar circumstances I tend to use (and agreeing with jboer's solution) an IP connected relay style solution running some 240V contactors (with 24v coil) or perhap something like the 240VAC relays (perhaps a 12v/24v DC coil side) from a local POE Ethernet IP relay device using C-Bus logic to send the required HTTP commands to set/unset the relays following the C-Bus GA state. Of course the low voltage side and high voltage side of this sort of solution needs to be adequately isolated from each other to Australian Wiring Standards etc.

    To add to the ones jboer suggested, the ones I tend to see around in Sydney and continuously promoted at trade shows over the years are the Global Cache iTach IP2CC ones that seem pretty well supported in Australia.

    Good Luck with that,

    Brad
     
    bmerrick, Sep 13, 2019
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  10. noyzey

    noyzey

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    Thanks JBoer / Brad

    I have an IP Relay controlling the gate motor. I didn't think of using HTTP from the logic engine in the WISER. I'm sending HTTP requests / commands from Savant and 2n on the same job, I haven't tried doing this from C-Bus.
    The help files in PICED indicate that post data HTTP commands are only available within C_Touch. Is this right? If not, do you have an example script for HTTP commands?
     
    noyzey, Sep 13, 2019
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  11. noyzey

    bmerrick

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    Here's an example from a Wiser2

    Code:
    // This Module releases the Front Pedestrian gate by sending an HTTP Get to the Gate Station
    once GetLightingState("Front Gate - Pedestrian")= ON then
    begin
    //URL_Line := 'http://192.168.100.210/enu/state.xml.p?lock2state=1&answer=OK!';
    GetHTTPData('http://192.168.110.210/enu/state.xml.p?lock2state=1&answer=OK!');
    delay(2);
    end;
     
    bmerrick, Sep 14, 2019
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  12. noyzey

    jboer

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    jboer, Sep 14, 2019
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