All relay channels coming on randomly

Discussion in 'C-Bus Wired Hardware' started by dannyd, Feb 18, 2019.

  1. dannyd

    dannyd

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    My system is coming on 9y old now and has been (mostly) trouble free. System has 82 units, of which 3 are 12C relays.

    Approx 12 months ago I came home to find all 12 channels of 1 relay on, but no corresponding input units were on. I didn't think much of it and turned everything off.

    Now the same thing is happening on 2 relay units and more regularly (5 times in a month, twice in 2 days on the same relay) and it happened on a 4C dimmer as well.

    I had the diagnostic utility running the last time this happened and whilst it registered me turning the channels off from an input units, there was no register of the channels being turned on from anything via the bus.

    It appears these relays are being turned on via false triggering of "remote on".

    Any suggestions as to what can cause this? and more importantly... how to make it go away?
     
    dannyd, Feb 18, 2019
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  2. dannyd

    Ashley

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    It doesn't take much contamination on a cbus connection to trigger a remote on or off. If it happens when it rains a lot that is your clue. Also rodents can play havoc if they have access to any connections. In a domestic application you will probably find that the remote on/off connections stop at switches as these only have the 2 terminal connections for the bus and the remote connections are unlikely to be continued. This will isolate the affect of the problem to a particular area. You can try making up a short extension cable that does not connect the remote on/off and place it on the input of an affected unit. This will confirm the problem.
     
    Ashley, Feb 19, 2019
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  3. dannyd

    Roosta

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    Remote on triggering will hold the channels on until you rectify the fault, you cannot manually over ride this short of turning the circuit breakers off..

    So if per your statement you came home to find them on and then manually turned them off and they did go off then its not a triggering of the ‘remote on’ function of CBUS.

    If however when it does happen you are unable to manually turn off then the quickest simplest way to remove the possibility of it being the remote on function is to do the same as suggested by Ashley and isolate the field and switchboard cbus remote on and off wiring leaving just the cbus network wiring..
     
    Roosta, Feb 19, 2019
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  4. dannyd

    Ashley

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    I have had water ingress faults that short the remote on/off as the water passes through then clears as the water dries, so intermittent faults are certainly possible.
     
    Ashley, Feb 19, 2019
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  5. dannyd

    Roosta

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    Agreed and I never said intermittent faults werent possible. They just give different symptoms to the way i have read the OP’s post and turn of events.

    In my experience intermittent triggering of Remote on/off when there is water ingress results in it either holding the channels all on or all off, and as the water drys it can pulse all on or all off, returning to previous state as the short drys out.

    However during a remote on or off local toggles and input functions do not work, so if he came home to witness all the channels on then manually turned them off via the local toggles or input units then it would point me to look elsewhere..

    The quickest way to diagnose a remote on/off trigger in my experience is arrive and find no local toggle control and all outputs either all on or off. Unplug cbus cables from output unit and see if the toggles then become responsive. Only time this fails is when local toggles have been disabled. But thats usually the next step.
     
    Roosta, Feb 19, 2019
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  6. dannyd

    Wonkey

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    Worth while noting that the unit light on the output unit would be flashing if a local toggle (pressed a button on the output) had taken place and remains flashing until cleared by pressing any output channel button for 2 secs.
    The unit light also flashes on a remote on or off condition but stops flashing at the same time as the remote on or off is removed..

    In a remote on off condition all interconnected output units would respond not just a single unit.

    Check inside the C-bus cabinet and check the patch leads, maybe swap a few around.
    Check for insects as they too can cause problem.

    Also check on tool kit what GA is programmed in the area address of you output unit
     
    Wonkey, Feb 19, 2019
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  7. dannyd

    dannyd

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    yes, I would have expected all the relays in the board to come on if there was a "remote on" short (there are 6 in 1 board and 10 in another) and in all cases it has only been 1 relay where all channels were triggered. I have since switched the patch leads around and given everything a good clean with the dyson and have no mysterious triggering since... I've also disconnected the garage door for the relay until this is sorted - it is not a good look to have to garage door randomly opening
     
    dannyd, Feb 23, 2019
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