Air Conditioning Integration

Just wanted to get some feedback on eveyone's experiences with controlling AC with C-Bus.
Positive or negative.
Brands that work - brands that don't.
Levels of control ie: relays, RS232, high level C-Bus interface, PC control (thru Homegate, Schedule Plus)
Tell us your story...

 

Hmmm,
It seems as though no-one has done any AC integration with C-Bus or if they do have any experience or information, it is so sensitive that it can't be shared on these forums. (60+ views to this topic & not 1 reply)
Our limited experience has involved Daikin but after the client decided the Daikin/C-Bus interface was far too expensive we resorted to simple ON/OFF control by using C-Bus volt free relay contacts connected to an external timer overide terminal on the fan core unit. Pretty limited integration
We have a few upcomming projects that require AC integration to which we would like to offer a better solution. Hopefully someone in the C-Bus community (Clipsal techies at least) can point us in the right direction for successful integration of C-Bus with AC control.'
Cheers

 

AC Integration is certainly a bit of a grey area. IMHO a lot of it comes down to the lack of widely adopted interfacing standards. Sure there are standards, they're just not widely adopted.

We've seen quite a few AC systems integrated through IR and a few others through serial control on a case-by-case basis involving the integrator coming up with something tricky. Others have been, as you say, through basic on/off control or some form of dry contact input wired up to C-Bus relays.

 

I can only offer generalised comments, as I am definitely no expert at this. From what I've seen, it's as Newman said - a problem / limitation on the A/C side, not really of Cbus's capabilities.

The A/C companies make controllers, and those ensure all the operational characteristics are covered (eg: compressor motor restart delays, etc). It would be quite painful finding out and then recreating those in your own control system. So, I guess you might be asking for an I/O interface.

All decent A/C controllers offer timers, etc - What operational benefit does integration with Cbus provide you with?

Sorry for the dumb question - as far as I am concerned an A/C is simply switched on and then a thermostat controls the temperature. If you want it to only operate it between 9.00am and 9.00pm, then you set the timer on the unit accordingly. If you want telephone control, then you buy that from the A/C manufacturer.

I guess I am having trouble understanding what exactly there is to "control" on it... the thermostat automatically controls the temperature, and it's not the kind of thing that you'd run off a IR sensor, etc... ???

JC (showing my ignorance)

 

I don't suppose you'd consider turning the A/C off during (extended) unattended periods a benefit?

Or perhaps different setpoints depending on time of day, or season, or occupied status?

I know in my old place (which didn't have c-bus) I used to have a greater deadband during transitional seasons, pulled the temperature down a little more at bedtime, allowed it to get hotter inside if the place wasn't occupied (but not completely turned OFF).

Zone motors that allow a ducted system to put the air where it's needed most (based on what the system can see in terms of occupancy, or if you wanted to be really smart - increase the A/C airflow if you have 1200W of lights on in a room!)

There are any number of reasons why one could/would want to have more control than "on/off". I know, I certainly would (if I weren't built underground and have no need of aircon!)

RossW

 

I am intrested in the "Daikin/C-Bus interface" mentioned in your post. Is there some more detail you can provide on it? Is it a Daikin C-Bus interface ie Daikin have developed it or is there a 3rd party device out there?

Thanks,

Fleetz

 

I have just launched into trying to get serial control of a carrier system. I have obtained a copy of their indoor weather sation software and will have to reverse engineer it, but it is slow going as I am no expert at this stuff.

It is very difficult to find information for AC integration indeed. Even the guys at carrier dont seem to know that much about it for residential systems. As for commercial systems, thats a different story.

Mick

 

The interface I installed (about 18 mths ago) was for an E-Bos (Lonworks) job & I can't recall too much about it but do remember that Daikin said that the same interface was being used in C-Bus installations. I have the manual around here somewhere & if I find it I will post more deatils.

 

I'm hearing you RossW....

My position on this topic is for more than basic C-Bus lighting/device control - more emphasis on INTEGRATION ie: different systems communicating to each other which leads to my goal of offering single point control of the home. To acheive this (in the scope of this thread) I need to know AC status (current set point, fan speeds, zones etc.) to offer the end user the ability to make a choice or for my programming (in a touch screen or Homegate for example) to control a device accordingly.

 

I told about integration with Daikin guys from my region stuff, and they said that there are only two legal ways for Daikin integration.
First way is to use IR control.
Second way is to use Daikin LON interface (two or more thousands $$).

Daikin has serial interface for AC, but dont provides any specification or documentation about. This serial interface only for use with Daikin PC software.

Maybe you would have more luck with Mitsubishi, which has optional serial interface fore some of its AC units with open specification.

 

Mick,

Would be very interested if you have any luck with the carrier system, trying to get info out of those guys is difficult at the best of times.

 

I have just integrated an A/C unit into my home automation setup. I used an actron a/c unit but bought a separate zone control system from the US (A company called RCS - www resconsys.com). This controller has individual thermostats in each room so you can set different setpoints for each room and the controller controls the airflow to achieve the correct temperature. It can even revert to heating in another room once the cooling has finished.

The RCS unit (ZC6R) has a RS232 or RS 485 interface and I plug it into my home automation controller (Homevision - www.csi3.com). The homevision has the ability to control C-bus output devices. I have not done this yet but I do not believe it will be difficult.

The Homevision controller has access to all the parameters and controls for the A/C and it can all be adjusted via the internet or locally via a flash movie that I use on a touchscreen LCD.

This probably does not help a great deal but I thought some may be interested in how it can be done.


Glen

 

AC control

Has any more information come about from this posting or has anyone had a play with it. I have 2 Daikin related jobs coming up (customer chose Daikin on our recommendation due to CIS advise) and I was assured by CIS Reps prior to the PICED release, that this would be an easy do. (i.e. Managing the AC functions from the touch screen.) Well... I'm not sure about the 'easy' any more. I am still in very early stages of learning RE. building code etc as we are just starting to install these units in jobs priced up some time ago. I get that this is possible but am feeling very green and am fearful of disappointing customers. Would be grateful to anyone who is willing to share ideas or set me in some sort of direction... My lesson? ? Research before commitment!

 

any updates on this A/C control subject ???

 

AdvantageAir (www.advantageair.com.au) have a C-bus interface in beta at the moment.

I am meeting with the rept his afternoon to talk about it some more.

mick

 

Control Daikin split

Splits from Daikin can be controlled by means optional Daikin unit KRP413A1S. Features are not reach, but you can switch unit off and on with C-Bus relays.