AdvantageAir v. Livezi Aircon

I'm currently evaluating two air-conditioners for home:
* http://www.advantageair.com.au/ - Advantage Air GenIII
* http://www.livezi.com.au - livezi
Both of these air conditioners boast temperature sensors in each room, and the ability to control the system via a computer (via rs-485 protocol).

Advantage Air GenIII appears better because:
* Fresh air option which can bring 10% fresh air into the house
* Control system is better

LiveZi appears better because:
* provides digital scroll in unit
* provides variable air flow

Does anyone have feedback on either of the two systems and integration with C-Bus?

 

Advantage Air

I have an advantage air system in my house (well half of one). The problem I had with the advantage air is i didnt want to use their air unit (big noisy old tech imo). They originally were OK with this but come commissioning time they were relucant to supply. They have a gen3-400 which is meant for 3rd party systems. I dont think they supply this anymore. Because I didnt buy their unit the have been stubborn about giving me any help (ie they wouldnt sell me the automation controller). The problem for them is that their unit wouldnt control the 3rd party unit whereas is fully integrated with theirs.

FYI even with setting my 3rd party unit to one temp, the temperature control works perfectly. It does have variable airflow in that the zones are variable not just open/close.

If you were going for the supplied air unit Im sure it would be great. Im still happy with mine even as it is. At the very least it gives you much better air control in an area where a standard unit would not work well (double story etc). Additionally i think it helps to make better use of the available airflow (hence the efficiency)

Regards,

Bruce

 

I am about to have a Gen3 system installed - 2 x 10kw units.

Control with a PAC should be fairly easy, but you need to have the Home Automation unit added (HAU - $1000). They have published their RS232 protocol.

Yes there is a temperature in each room, and more importantly, each room is a zone. Temps sensors are wireless - disregard what is on the web site as they dont do wired unless you really push.

The fresh air unit is also being installed. One modification I made was to also add a return air grill above the wood heater to draw warm air off and pass it to the bedrooms - this uses the fresh air unit with an extra damper or two.

I will be using mine with CQC, not so much with C-bus, although they are all integrated with the server so I can achieve control via C-bus indirectly.

The Gen 3 uses PID control - not sure what others use, but I dont think it is PID.

Mick

 

Advantage Air and Integration

Dear Mathew et al,

My name is David Rowden and as a senior member of the management team at Advantage Air it is my direct responsibilty for the successful commercial development and integration of our product range with both the residential and commercial construction industry.

I will attempt in this forum to offer some comparative commentary such that you are able to make an informed descision between choosing our GEN III system or another.

Many of your colleagues are already engaged in advanced commercial and technical discussions with us and I would be pleased to discuss your own needs or advise updates on the ongoing enablement program with Clipsal.


Often there will be case specific questions and as an open offer to any integrator or installer with a particular question or query please feel free call me on (07) 32681588 or mobile 0430194332 alternatively Email at [email protected].

With respect to your forum questions and points I would comment as follows:

1.Advantage Air's unique Exact Air Regulator is substantially better at air flow management using motorized opposed dampers as opposed to the standard Barrel Dampers used by others.

2.The GEN III uses R407C refrigerant reflecting our continued commitment to the environment and Ozone depletion issues.

3.Our zone sensors can be hardwired or use RF communications.

4.The GEN III has an extremely interactive and user friendly full colour soft touch panel.

5.The GEN III offers the Home Automation Gateway facility as discussed in associated strings.

6.Contrary to what is current stated on the forum the GEN III offers Variable Air Volume to the zones as well.

7.The GEN III also offers up 32 zones.

I hope you have found this useful in your mutual discussions and I look forward to discussing the subject further with you and your colleagues at your leisure.

Please feel free to also come and see us at this year's CEDIA Exhibition at the Gold Coast Center in July 2007.

Kind regards
David

 

David,

what is your comment on claims regarding Advantage Air's reluctance at the use of third party heat pump units with advantage air control units?

Current heat pump offerings from Advantage Air are older technology as noted above.

Do advantage Air have any new cooling units (I.E. inverter technology) becoming available in the near future that we should be aware of?

cheers,

Adam

 

Not happy anymore with AdvantageAir products

I've been chasing Advantageair's home automation module for about 3 years. I visited their factory in Melbourne and talk to some of the gents over there that were really helpful. I also went to two home shows in Melbourne to see their product and meet their Dealers.

When the time came to install the system, they send me to one of their Dealers called Clear Air, and that was the end of the honey moon.

The Gen III system was installed in full in my house late 2006 except for the automation module, with the promise that the automation control will be installed as soon as Advantage Air release it. It's been 10 months of chasing Clear Air and Advantageair, lots of energy spent in emails, phone calls and visits that have end nowhere. So far I have the GEN III that interfaces with nothing. I'm going legal with Clear Air to get my money back, but that's another issue.

Regarding the Gen III, here are some pros:
- touch screen size and colour are good
- proportional flow control
- good internal valve (dumper) heat insulation

Here are some cons:
- it is very slow to screen commands
- schedules are not reliable, sometimes the GEN III for some reason disables some of the schedules (anoying when happens at midnight).
- Schedule names sometimes blanks for no reason.
- the touch screen stopped working a couple of times (frozen) and I had to reset it manually at the controls in the roof cavity.
- There are three boxes and heaps of wires in the roof. It is very messy up there now, with not too much space for other toys.
- Room sensors use batteries and there is no option for power supply them.
- lack of support from the factory (regarding problem above).
- Before installation, the gas heating unit had to be changed cause GEN III inability to interface with it.

All in all, and after 3 years of been following up Gen III, I'm deeply disappointed with this expensive system.

CS.

 

At $1000.00 for a home automation unit - you would think they would be bending over backwards to get them out the door to anyone willing to part with those sort of dollars, as opposed to making you jump through hoops to get one. $1k sounds a bit pricey to get RS232 control especially after forking out several thousand dollars for an AC system. If this module does Modbus and BACnet as well ??? (therefore the price) then maybe a serial 232/485 only option might be a good way to go ???

 

I am installing one right now and this is what I have learnt.

The HAU was released about three months ago (maybe less). Try again. They are about $1100, but you may need an Airnet (or Airweb as they call it now) extension module to be able to plug it in (its like a network hub).

I have just had the ducting for my AA system installed (Yesterday actually), and yes there are a lot of cables, but I installed three cabinets to house everything. Two together and a third close the the fan coil - the beauty of a network based (albeit a proprietary) system.

There have been some firmware upgrades to their modules. Maybe you should chase them up and see if they can upgrade them for you to fix some of these problems.

As for the room sensors, there is a wired option, but apparently they dont like to use them (extra work I think) but you can get them if you push (so I am told). That requires more cat5 to be run to each room, so if you are prepared to pay for that or to do it yourself then there is that option for you. Batteries are supposed to last for about 2 years I was told.
You could always power them externally yourself with a 3V supply, DC is DC whether it is from a battery or a DC power supply. It would probably void the warranty though.

Only three boxes - I have 7 excluding the HAU (fresh air has just been upgraded and a new box exists for that now). As I mention earlier, they are housed in cabinets in my server room (I used mess M1 cabinets)

I am sorry to hear about your problems and I hope it is not something I will come across either.

Mick

 

No arguments about the price, but you have to remember that they have developed a command set that is relatively easy for any third party to interface to - very well feature in my opinion, yet simple to implement. I think it is 232 and 485.

There is also a GSM modem that can be connected so you can control it via the web. I think you log on to your AdvantageAir account, make a change and then they send an SMS to your system for you. Apparently not available in NSW (no demand for it). Not sure why you cant just send your own command via your mobile - probably can, its just a way for the non technical to access their system remotely.

Mick

 

I wouldnt worry about it, im coming up for 12 months and havent had any battery probs. im pretty sure the system tells you when they are failing too.
I am sorry to hear about your problems and I hope it is not something I will come across either.

 

Agree, the command set would make it easy for me to implement the 'features' removed from the Gen II 400 (for 3rd party units). When you use the Gen III 400 you lose the schedules etc which makes it a pain to have different setting for day/night summer/winter. In my case the only option is to tweak the set points accordingly on the LCD (which i generally leave turned off).

While the air flow management side of things is good the scheduling is non existent (ie its not even available on the Gen III 400).

Havent tried to get the Automation controller off them lately. But perhaps if someone from AA reads this they could respond as to why this is a problem.

 

Advantage Air and Integration

Hi

It was a pleasure meeting with everyone at CEDIA this year and I am thrilled at the amount of growing interest in HVAC integration within both the commercial and residential construction industry.

Many people reflected that they were sadly unable to attend the presentation by our two guys from WA R&D on the opening morning and I have attached a pdf file that will cover most of the initial enquiries encountered.

Extensive work has already taken place across RS232 and 485 protocols with a range of different companies or their integrators whilst R&D continues with Clipsal using an embedded SIM as part of enabled program and CEDIA was an opportune time for our mutual R&D teams to meet and push forward with this high level development.

Saturday was particularly impressive as teams from other integration companies came to the stand to discuss their client's individual project needs and the road ahead with respect to commercial arrangements, embedded SIM, screen dumps and "plug & play" protocols.

If after having read through these details you would like to progress discussions further, the file is to large or you have specific case queries please feel free to contact me - [email protected]


Kind regards
David

 

Gen III proforming well

I found your cons interesting "CS" as I have a GEN III and it performs A1.
I have full control of were air is going, when and to what temperature.
Have you contacted Advantage air Melbourne or called the 1300 number? as I have found them to be helpful.

Antwebb.

 

how does it perform when you only want to provide heating/cooling to one or two rooms only?

from my discussions with some Advantage Air dealers there is some frustration that their system has some issues with way too much air sent to spill zones when you only want to use the system for a small part of the overall house.

Problems seem to stem from the fact that the advantage air branded a/c units not being capable of delivering a variable air volume rather than a problem with the control system which is a shame.

I have heard anecdotally of a couple of GenIII systems being pulled out by dealers because of this problem which concerns me as someone who wants something like the GenIII.

 

Advantage Air

Hi,

I am pleased to advise that Advantage Air has launched its revamped website which I believe you will find substantially more informative, user friendly and interactive.

www.advantageair.com.au

P.S. It was also a pleasure meeting everyone at the recent Queensland C-Bus pointOne launch.

Best wishes
David Rowden

[email protected]