AC On/Off Control Via CBus

I'm on a job replacing an old Black and White Touch that died with a new Colour Touch. The old sucker took with it all the programming that the previous installer put in 12 years back when the system got commissioned.

The Daikin Ducted AC is controlled by a KRP4A51 with the Cbus using dry contacts to turn the unit on and off and the Daikin controller for set temp, mode and so forth. The Daikin controller is in a room that doesn't have AC in it so they have put two 5031TS temp sensors in the return air, one for cooling and one for heating to turn the AC on/off when it hits target temperature.

Has anyone had any experience with this kind of set up? Any advice would be great, so far haven't been able to find an old forum that clears it up for me.

Thanks!

 

if you havent worked it out already:
Target temp on the touch screen,
when in less then, call for heating
when more than, call for cooling

 

Mochief

It's not ideal to shut the whole unit down when it reaches set point.
An especially terrible idea for Daikin's inverter air conditioners.
It's going to stop the airflow and the CBus return air temp sensors are not going to have any relationship at all to the room temps.

You could ask Daikin about using their return air sensor.
I'd be surprised if the indoor unit doesn't already have one that can be selected in the Daikin wired remote controller programming.
Certainly can be added if it's not already there.
Then if the customer is happy to use the Daikin remote to change set points, modes and fan speeds your job is done.

If the site has a L5108RELVP a few spare channels and also 2 extra wires to the interface you could use that and some resistors to make a few set points via CBus very easily.

 

IMO you are better off with a Coolmaster https://coolautomation.com

Which you can interface with C-Bus using RS232 or IP.

 

Does this mean by interfacing the cool master with C-bus I would be able to control my Mitsubishi Heavy Industries ducted and split systems via wiser 2 home control?

 

Hello Mathew
MHI is on Coolmaster's list of supported devices.

Just to give you a brief idea what would be involved.
I previously set up a home with Daikin and Coolmaster.
The larger Daikin ducted units come standard with a two wire bus for Daikin central controllers.
You can get the idea, Daikin, Mitsubishi and everyone else already has a system to control multiple units in large buildings.

Some of the Daikin units I installed like the wall mounted splits and the small ducted units needed an interface card added.
Then I needed two wires looped between all the central control interfaces.
For the wall mounted splits that was to the indoor unit and retrofitting may be difficult.

Coolmaster has a device to connect to that bus and provides an RS232 interface.
Then you need something, in my case logic running on Colour Touch screen to send commands and keep status.

I'd try to talk directly to Coolmaster to see what they can offer now days.
Would also be asking Coolmaster and CBus system integrators who can set that up for you.
Maybe the new Wiser Automation controller can be the device?
Forum member djaggar can probably help you run the logic on Wiser2

 

Simple on off control through the AC manufacturers interface is not a bad option to look at too.
For the Daikin wall mounted splits in my office that is what I use.
There is an interface added to the split and a CBus extra low voltage relay to turn them on and off.
It's a lot simpler.
A well set up AC just doesn't need to have the set point changed all the time.

 

Most importantly, having CBus thermostats control your Daikin ducted AC setpoint by on off control is just not a good setup.

 

Thankyou for the fast reply, I will send coolmaster an email, I am keeping a very close eye on the new wiser controller.
Cheers matt

 

I really agree with this, we have a Ducted Dakin and originally I just put a simple on/off control (and zone) with the plan to upgrade to either the Coolmaster or the Relay/Resistor matrix. But we have found that we change the set point twice a year, once in spring and once in Winter. This would really be a personal preference thing if people like adjusting their points all the time, but we have found we just dont! Off if we leave home, Schedule to turn off at night, and a couple of Wiser adjustable schedules for a few on times as well as the usual TS and buttons around the place.

Mostly just making this comment that if you are looking at spending a lot of money on a coolmaster or ect it may just be worth trying it with simple on and off control first and see how you go!

 

Coolmaster also have an Ethernet unit that would allow control from anything that can sit on your network as send commands to it. Its not just RS232.

 

Hello Mick
I haven't seen that device.
I'm sure Coolmaster has a lot of options now days.

For the Coolmaster back then I used a serial device server so it was on the network anyway.
When I said I had it running on Colour Touch that was not actually true because I had Homegate running the logic on a PC instead of the Colour Touch.
Same thing but Homegate was easier for me to manage remotely at the time.

10 years ago I actually had a problem commisioning the Coolmaster interface.
It was a task for sure to narrow it down.
Coolmaster replaced the unit and it is working fine to this day.

I replaced one wall wart in that time.
If I was doing it again I would put the Coolmaster or most importantly the power supply somewhere other than the ceiling space.

 

Does anyone roughly know how much a coolmaster costs?? I will contact them first thing Monday, just don't want to get a shock over the phone. I should be used to it by now. Anything in regards to Cbus and automation is pricey. But it sure is convenient to turn **** on and off via the mobile

 

That's a good question to ask.
For the last job where I used a Coolmaster interface.
There was 4 AC units.
Two ducted units and two wall mounted splits.
Ten years ago the Coolmaster interface cost me about AU$1200 if that can be some indication.
Then you also need some logic or smarts somewhere to run it.

Ten years ago there wasn't a lot of options to get someone to set that up for you.
Forum member djaggar helped me a lot.
Actually he did it all.
I reckon he tried to help me do it so he would't have to do it all again for everyone else.
Unfortunately that didn't work out.
Sorry Dave
If I said I was at least 10 years behind you would not be enough.
I'm thinking the latest Wiser automation controller and good support should see this sort of thing more widely available.

 

There are two flavors int he coolmaster range

One is more expensive (CoolMasterNet) but can connect to many different manufacturers and then there is the cheaper (CoolLinkNet) that is dedicated to a brand. For this one you buy the Mitsubishi version or the Fujitsu version etc - depending on what you have.

The protocol is the same across all models with only features of the different brands being the difference.

Cost from memory was about $700 for the basic model in Ethernet.

CoolLinkNet

CoolMasterNet

It appears that there is a new product now the Coolplug and CoolLinkHub. The CoolPlug connects to the indoor units and offers a wireless connection to the hub - built for mini split and multi split systems. The HA system then connects to the hub.

Builders will need to start adding closets or hubs soon as standard with all the different hubs that are now available.

 

Thx for the info,

I have been in contact with Igor Mitbarg the CEO of Cool Automation, I need someone to clarify what Igor has told me. He said I need to use a RS232 Cable to connect the Coolinkhub to my Cbus via a PACA controller? Do I need a PACA controller or is there another way to connect RS232 to my Cbus system as I do have a Wiser 2 controller. Im not very good with data cabling jargon. Is the PACA only designed to interface other equipment with Cbus? Or should I just get one of these new Wiser Automation Controllers to use as my RS232 Link?
any help would be great,

thx Matt

 

Wiser2 can run it for you via ethernet with a serial to ethernet converter.
New Wiser should be good too if someone has the programming for it done.

Have a read here and run it past Igor again.
http://www.cbusforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15957

 

I've used the CoolMasterNet, but not the CoolLinkHub... but the both look like they use the same ethernet interface. So there is no reason you couldn't use a Wiser to talk to it.

Also CoolMaster have a standalone app that will work at the same time as your CBUS connection too.

 

The Wiser can "talk" directly to the CoolLinkNet. From memory it is just a TCP connection sending ASCII commands.

They also do Modbus TCP if you want to get the wiser talking modbus.

 

Just ordered my coolinkhub and coolplugs, not long till it turns up