A-V control within wiser (please be kind!)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by wappinghigh, Jun 5, 2009.

  1. wappinghigh

    wappinghigh

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    OK. I'll take a big breath. Maybee I'm missing the big picture here (pardon the pun). SO please Please point out if I've missed something.

    The Wiser is an outstanding product and a great advance. Why.Because it puts control were it should be. Within the user friendly network/IP/browser space.:):)

    By doing this, it enhances CIS' strengths. A robust lighting and relay control system. In addition the people at CIS have obviously given a great deal of thought into integrating other devices. Look at the HVAC / CSI thermostat, and IP camera integration for example. Outstanding. Remote access and the ability to integrate into an already established network is a huge bonus.

    But what about Audio Visual. Am I missing something here? This area of "control" has been a weak link in CIS's product range for a long time. Companies like AMX, and Control4, Sonos, Switch Automation..even Philips with there Pronto, have made huge inroads into this space at CIS's expense. Wiser only shows up the deficencies in the area IMHO.

    So were is the new CIS networked/IP audio visual zone control device. The CIS IP "Sonos"...or the CIS IP "Control4" Visual control device? ...(for want of better names). Surely the Wiser product is begging for such integration. Even integrating something like these products from www.globalcache.com (in a similar fashion to the excellent WISER IP camera integration) would be huge!

    All we are left with is the same old IR box relay set up, and the same old CIS clumsy Audio distribution arrangement. Yeh I know you are going to shoot me down and say.."but we've integrated Slimdevices and Microsoft Media server...etc"

    ..but this just doesn't cut it.

    So after setting up Wiser, Customers like me still have to run 3 control platforms. CIS for lighting/HVAC. Sonos for music and something like Control4/Pronto or AMX for multiroom TV/DVD/Foxtel/. We are still left with 3 sets of iphone apps. Three sets of browsers to launch. Three sets of menus to pull up onto a touch screen.

    I sure wish CIS could give some serious thought into improving the audiovisual control side of their business, or somehow provide a way of integrating other AV system controls within Wiser. That way Wiser takes it's rightful place as THE gateway. The primary menu for an all in one system:D
     
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    wappinghigh, Jun 5, 2009
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  2. wappinghigh

    Conformist

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    You've answered you own question several times in your post. Every man and his dog is going A/V control. Wiser is not trying to compete with Crestron, AMX, RTI Control4 etc... these guys are in a different space... price wise too! CIS is working to it's strengths... you will see more evidence of this in coming months with new product releases. A/V control is not one of CIS' strengths and therefore will not be on the list. If you are happy with the competitors' offers of A/V control, then buy them. You will need to pay the premium price that is asked for however.



    Cheers
     
    Conformist, Jun 6, 2009
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  3. wappinghigh

    wappinghigh

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    Sure. Thanks for getting my point. but now what?

    Thanks.

    OK. So CIS is week in A-V control. Sure. Pitty. Since A-V usage takes up far the majority on my "Smarthome" usage time...(cf lighting/heating/alarms)

    Clearly you seem to be indicating that none of the planned new products involve A-V control. So I get a "more expensive" system like AMX or C4. Great. More than happy to do that if CIS doesn't want to enter that space. It's their decision.

    Then what?

    I'm still left with 3 sets of iphone apps. Three sets of browsers to launch. Three sets of menus to pull up onto a touch screen.

    My question is how do you get control of these other platforms within WISER? That's the key to WISER becoming the main platform. Otherwise WISER just dies and sit's down there in the "sub level"..Is that what CIS wants? Surely not. Surely the Wiser design team has given some thought to this.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 6, 2009
    wappinghigh, Jun 6, 2009
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  4. wappinghigh

    Conformist

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    It's horses for courses!
     
    Conformist, Jun 6, 2009
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  5. wappinghigh

    Colin Smith

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    Colin Smith, Jun 8, 2009
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  6. wappinghigh

    wappinghigh

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    Hey thanks!!

    Thanks for the link! I was unaware of this hook up. Switch Automation were on my shortlist anyway....:):)
     
    wappinghigh, Jun 8, 2009
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  7. wappinghigh

    wappinghigh

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    Wiser and Switch Automation

    Hey Guys...just wondering how CIS intends to pull these two platforms together?

    Run them independently, or is Wiser going to launch from within the Switch Automation platform?

    See my point....the use of this stuff starts to get too complicated, ...Home Automation companies should be simplifing this sort of end user experience. But I guess it's early days. At least it plugs the HUGE A-V control hole in the CIS range :):):) This is another big step forward:D
     
    wappinghigh, Jun 11, 2009
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  8. wappinghigh

    Conformist

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    No

    Two completely different price points. Two very different market segments.
     
    Conformist, Jun 12, 2009
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  9. wappinghigh

    wappinghigh

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    Thanks for this extremely disappointing news.

    You know if your answers are correct, this is very disappointing.

    I still don't get it. Maybe I'm daft.

    The Wiser is a kick a..e platform. It's brilliant. Simple to set up. Simple to use. It's all you'd need for goodness sake. But, without THE most commonly used purpose for Home Automation!!...that is "Universal" type home cinema/TV control. I JUST DONT GET IT.

    I just don't understand CIS's approach to this. Home cinema control could clearly be easily brought into the Wiser platform....I mean just about everything else has (and a lot more complicated control at that)

    I've NEVER understood CIS's neglect of this segment of the "control" market, and now from your response I probably never will...ALAS.......
     
    wappinghigh, Jun 12, 2009
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  10. wappinghigh

    kjayakumar

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    I'm just curious. I finally broke down and joined the LCD-TV crowd and just spent far too much of my savings on a Sony USB-enabled Bravia LCD-TV (KLV-32V550 in case you're curious) and a Sony HDMI DVD player. You mentioned "easily brought into". So help me out, how do I control these AV devices easily? I can't seem to find any open mechanism, let alone a protocol that is sufficiently standard that it would work on more than one specific manufacturer's device. Do I need HDMI AV-Link, do I need RS-232 (I see a connector on the back of the LCDTV), resort to IR training? Neither device has ethernet so UPnP is a bust. In fact, in my case, even though the LCD and DVD player are both from Sony, they both have separate remotes which don't seem to interoperate that well either. Basically, are you sure that home cinema control is so easy? If so, what specific standards and what specific devices are you basing this on?
     
    kjayakumar, Jun 12, 2009
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  11. wappinghigh

    wappinghigh

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    Easy

    1/ use a third party directly like Global Cache or
    2/ use the new alliance with switch automation..use their IR/serial control drivers and merge in their platform into Wiser or
    3/ launch a browser within "wiser" that can control a third party IP product like pronto or Control4 or Sonos or
    4/ write and support an iphone wiser app that can run along side a third party iphone app like Control4/HAI/Sonos, or whatever...or
    5/ control the RF of the harmony remote or Sonos or
    6/ release a simple networkable IR distribution/control box and support a few of the most common products in the market place directly LG/Sharp/Panasonic/ Foxtel/TIVO/Beyonwiz/Apple/XBMC/Denon/Sony...or...:)
     
    wappinghigh, Jun 12, 2009
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  12. wappinghigh

    Conformist

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    They are correct!

    :rolleyes:


    Your last sentence sums up this paragraph. You are looking at a very small subset of the totalmarket (your own requirements)
    No!!! It can't be easily brought into this platform. If it could, it would have been done. There are so many methods of controlling Home Theatre equipment.... RS232, TCP/IP, Infrared (from 36-400+kHz), HDMI, Zigbee...the list goes on.
    I refer to one of my other replies.... how many systems have you installed?

    How qualified are you to make the very blunt points you make? I might sound arrogant, but I have hundreds of successful installs under my belt and over 16 years of experience with C-Bus and it's associated products. I'm also lucky enough to be able decipher true market requirements, and channel them into products like Wiser. Every time you question CIS' ability, you question my ability to judge our market and those who install millions of dollars worth of product as their profession (and provide me with market intel), not to mention the talented engineers who are so passionate about this product.

    I've edited this reply now that I understand where you are coming from! The Wiser product is targeting a broad segment of the market and isn't meant to go 'head to head' with the Crestrons and AMX's in the custom install market. Now that I understand you are looking at your own installation requirements and don't have a broader understanding of the mass market's requirements(no offence intended), I can better reply to your posts. -

    By all means provide feedback, but bear in mind the mass marketability of this product will take priority over early adopter type features.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 12, 2009
    Conformist, Jun 12, 2009
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  13. wappinghigh

    wappinghigh

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    Sorry. I don't mean to offend..

    I've never said Cbus is bad product
    I've never said Wiser is a bad development. Quite the contrary.
    I don't speak as an engineer. Just as a frustrated end user. If you feel offended, I'm sorry.

    But I do believe Clipsal has neglected a couple of core developments over the years and the obvious one is AV control.

    I'm sure it's incredibly difficult. But other companies have managed. Are you now telling me it is beyond the capabilities of such a resourceful company? I hope not! As you said before CIS seemed to decide a while back not to concentrate on this. Somebody at CIS. Somewhere in history made that choice. Their choice. I'm just saying with the benefit of hindsight that perhaps IMHO it was the wrong choice....I bet I'm not the only one out there either who feels this way...I just wish with all my heart that CIS could put in better AV control. That's all. Simply because it would make a great product even better. I really do believe with this sorted, CIS could easily take on AMX or Crestron...

    I mean the very first thing I felt when I first used Wiser was... wow this is great. What a fantastic interface. The second thing I thought was...gee what a pitty CIS doesn't have better AV control....

    I mean well. I really do.....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 12, 2009
    wappinghigh, Jun 12, 2009
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  14. wappinghigh

    Darpa

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    Very well said Conformist!

    Have been resisting the urge to reply to these posts for a while, and you've said it with eloquence and accuracy.
     
    Darpa, Jun 12, 2009
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  15. wappinghigh

    Conformist

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    Enough has been said on this issue! CIS will not be developing A/V control Period! No point going on about it. It's not core business. So please, no more on the subject.
     
    Conformist, Jun 12, 2009
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  16. wappinghigh

    nickrusanov

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    I think C-Bus is good developed for AV segment. We can use it to control multiroom switchers, receivers and DVD's.

    I think for the AV perfection it could have some more "official logic code" to control digital devices. Also Im interested if Wiser is capable to process sound (for intercom applications).

    I didn't need AMX/Crestron for anything last year, just using Clipsal features and software. And do not agree with you, wappinghigh
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 12, 2009
    nickrusanov, Jun 12, 2009
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  17. wappinghigh

    wappinghigh

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    OK Accepted

    No problems.

    ...but hope you don't mind me exploring other ways (via third parties) to bring this sort of control within Wiser.:) It's such a great interface!

    I'm aware there is the possibility Windows Media Centre can be controlled within Wiser. OK how does this work? Perhaps a Media Centre PC could be used for this task. I believe there are some out there that also offer AV control, IR relays...even serial....

    Would this be feasible?
     
    wappinghigh, Jun 12, 2009
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  18. wappinghigh

    Conformist

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    Do whatever you need to do to achieve your desired outcome. C-Bus protocols are now available for download (not just a subset as was provided previously) to allow developers an easier tunnel into C-Bus. Please see http://www.cbusforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5022

    CIS will continue to focus on core products for mass market. This will become evident in the coming months with some exiting releases. These fill some holes in the product offer suite as well as adding some new functionality. You will be pleasantly surprised.
     
    Conformist, Jun 12, 2009
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  19. wappinghigh

    kjayakumar

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    There's a MS Windows Media Center Plugin available for download here:
    http://www2.clipsal.com/cis/technical/downloads/general_utilities

    But I think you meant to say "Media Centre can control Wiser", not the other way around. Wiser can't currently tell a Media Center to list all movies, switch channels, start playing a movie, and other such things.

    The way that plugin works is that the Media Center user interface uses the plugin to communicate via ethernet to the Wiser. Basically, it takes what you see as the Wiser user interface and makes a similar user interface that conforms to typical Media Center user interface standards.
     
    kjayakumar, Jun 13, 2009
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  20. wappinghigh

    kjayakumar

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    Just curious and interested in an elaboration of above, what kind of sound protocols and what kind of intercom applications do you mean?
     
    kjayakumar, Jun 13, 2009
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