A/C damper control with 5031TS and Shutter Relay

Discussion in 'C-Bus Wired Hardware' started by mcsortan, Jan 16, 2018.

  1. mcsortan

    mcsortan

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    I’m looking for some wisdom regarding using a 5031TS temperature sensor to sense the air temperature in an aircon duct, and then send a signal to a C-Bus shutter relay to open the duct damper when cold air is being delivered and close the damper when warm air is being delivered.

    Unfortunately Playing around with the 5031TS it can open the damper ok, but I can’t see a way to close it.

    I also interface to the C-Bus system through a Wiser controller so I’m thinking I may be able to read the 5031TS temperature and with some logic get the Wiser to send a signal to the shutter relay.

    Anyone got any ideas?

    Thanks in advance for your help.
     
    mcsortan, Jan 16, 2018
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  2. mcsortan

    Ashley

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    What sort of damper is it? Single or dual wire. 230V, SELV? How have you set it up at the moment? Otherwise we are just guessing :)
     
    Ashley, Jan 16, 2018
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  3. mcsortan

    mcsortan

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    The damper is 240V with two operating positions - fully open or fully closed and has latching contacts.
    It therefore requires a signal to open and a different signal to close.

    I am driving it with the CBus Shutter relay which can do just that.

    Right now I can manually drive it quite easily of course through either a Cbus switch or via my Wiser. The ideal outcome would be to have it driven automatically.

    My challenge is to get two different signals to the shutter relay to tell it when to open and when to close - hence the hopeful use of the 5031TS to take a temperature reading and generate an open (if cold) or close (if hot) signal.

    I hope this makes sense
     
    mcsortan, Jan 17, 2018
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  4. mcsortan

    NickD Moderator

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    Assuming you don't want to modulate the position in an analogue fashion, then you should just be able to send 0% for close and 100% for open... I can't remember whether the 5031TS does this natively, but I thought that was actually about all it *could* do (turn things on or off based on a temperature threshold).

    What commands is it sending out?

    Personally I would implement it in logic and issue open/close commands based on the temperature reading (you can also get more elaborate if you want allowing an adjustable threshold or even modulating the position although if you do this you have to understand the limitations of the positioning of the shutter relay).

    Having said that you should be able to get a temperature out of it by setting up a monitor component in the Wiser2.

    Add a Monitor (Project->Monitors..). This will set up the Wiser to poll the 5031TS for its temperature at the interval you define. You can then access the latest reading from logic using the GetUnitParameter or GetRealIBSystemIO functions (see the help for details).

    Nick
     
    NickD, Jan 17, 2018
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  5. mcsortan

    mcsortan

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    Correct, I not need analugue modulation, just fully open or fully closed.

    From what I can fathom with programming the 5031TS, it can comfortably send out one 'on/off' signal based upon a threshold.
    My challenge is I need two signals sent out - an 'on' signal and and 'off' signal.

    I have a Wiser 1 (5200PG) and not sure if that allows you to run monitors, but I have seen that in the PICED guide and will look deeper into it.
     
    mcsortan, Jan 17, 2018
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  6. mcsortan

    NickD Moderator

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    I don't follow the "2 signals" bit...

    The shutter relay uses a single group address to control both the "open" and "close" relays. These are interlocked (it's impossible to operate them both at the same time) and there is a changeover delay enforced in firmware.

    If you set that group OFF the "close" relay will turn on (after turning off the "open" relay if it was currently closed) for the duration set as the "failsafe time" (which you need to set to the amount of time it takes for the shutter to close). If you set the group to ON the the opposite happens.

    Note that the shutter relay only operates the contact for the failsafe time... then removes power. It expects the shutter to stay in position once power is removed.

    Nick
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
    NickD, Jan 17, 2018
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  7. mcsortan

    Brenda Selwood

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    I recently converted our aircon to C-Bus. It has four zones which used 4 SPDT switches to control the zones.

    To convert the dampers to C-Bus I used a 4 Channel Changeover Relay (L5504RVFCP) and it works fine.
     
    Brenda Selwood, Jan 17, 2018
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  8. mcsortan

    Ashley

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    Change over relays are the normal way you would do this, but as Nick says, I can't see why the shutter relay won't work. Setting the ga to off should trigger the close relay and setting it to on should trigger the open relay. Perhaps the failsafe timeout is set too low?
     
    Ashley, Jan 17, 2018
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  9. mcsortan

    mcsortan

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    Thanks all

    I’ll keep playing with it and report back with my results!!!
     
    mcsortan, Jan 17, 2018
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  10. mcsortan

    Wonkey

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    A change over relay would work or a shutter relay provided the running time on the shutter relay is long enough.
    the 5031TS has a margin control to prevent the group address changing state every time the temp goes over the set value. Hence depending on the margin set you will have to wait until the temperature changes beyond the set point plus the margin
     
    Wonkey, Jan 20, 2018
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