1 burden too many?

Hi
Any advise on why the network window (pic attached) says
“1 Burden too many”

according to tool kit diagnostic there is only 1 running and no hardware burdens plugged in.
i am having more issues than ever with the system (lights randomly turning on at night) flashing inputs etc
I’m clutching at straws so just wondered why?

 

The information about the number of burdens is taken from the database not the live network which the diagnostic information provides you.
Check your PCI interface and output unit if at unit address 001 to check to see if the burden is enabled.
An over burden network would not cause your lights to randomly turn on.
I also noticed that you seem to have 1600mA of power supplies, which again is probably incorrect due to the wrong output units being added to the database. A network scan cannot tell the difference between powered and unpowered output units.
Visually check you output unitsto see if they have a 200mA power supply or not (printed on the front of the unit) and correct your database if you want it to be truthful, it won't solve your problem of lights turning on.
It's possible that one of the power supply units is failing and probably needs replacing.
suggest downloading C-Bus diagnostic utility (different software to toolkit ( C-Bus Diagnostic Utility Software | Schneider Electric ) and running it overnight using the reliabilty test feature, you may also want to check where the commands for turning the light on are being issued from, toolkit log may help here.

 

If you can always use a hardware burden.

 

Apologies late reply, been away and Merry Christmas by the way!

Still on going issues with the house, (Flashing input units, unresponsive etc) Every 2- 3 days, very random. Generally when the inputs flash when used i jump on Tool kit and scan the network.

Always the same result:

Tool kit can only find 2 input units (Both PIA external sensors) then all the internal and one final external PIA sensor are listed as "Unit not responding"

Working through bits to try and get it sorted.

So reading up yet again on Burdens, mine is a software Burden and active on the PC Interface which is

Address 003

Should i try turning that off and turning on the Burden on an 8 Channel Dimmer which is on Address 001 ?

Or is it better to be on the PC Interface in general if you have one.? Although mine is Address 003

According to the PC Interface PDF online (From 2001 !)

"Network Burden The software selectable Network Burden can only be enabled on a unit with an address of 001. The Burden can be enabled from the ‘Global Tab’ within the GUI for the Network Interface, which is the same as the PC Interface Module"

I do have a hardware burden in a box i could even try turning of the soft burden and using a hard one?
But the only spare ethernet port would be on the Pc interface anyway as its on the end of the daisy chain.

 

Turn off all sw burdens and use the hw burden.
NOTE... IT GOES INTO THE CBUS RJ45 CONNECTION (You should have 2 of these on a CNI) Or it can fit anywhere on the cbus network...NOT... THE RJ45 NW CONNECTOR

 

Great ill try that..

Could this be the cause of flashing input / keypad units every so often?

Question.
CNI) = PC Interface ?

"Or it can fit anywhere on the cbus network...NOT... THE RJ45 NW CONNECTOR"

What is

RJ45 NW CONNECTOR ?

Sorry still learning!

 

Anywhere on the cbus network.
Color touch screens have a rj45 network connection for pc comms

 

That was fast!

I do not have any touch screens..
The only empty place is on the PC Interface, which is on the end of the daisy chain of all output units in the cabinet..
There is an empty RJ45 slot on it and it has the software burden turned on for that unit (PC Interface) address of the unit is 003

 

Turn off the sw burden and use the hw in the pci rj45

 

Ok cool, ill do that now and see how things go..
Thanks so much for the support..

Happy 2025!

Although its still 2024 in the UK ..

 

Hi Nick, Thanks so much for the info..

I have tried many things.

In the end i disconnected an input (Saturn 4 button switch) Removed the positive.

This took out only 3 Inputs (All Saturn 4 button switches) so that was fine to live with.

We had 48 hours of no issues at all. HOWEVER!

All of a sudden other inputs started flashing (Same as they used too) even with the 3 Inputs i had removed still off line.

Unit scans where random.

Then it really melted down.

I took out the the main input RJ45 that the inputs run on from the 001 Address dimmer Output (Its always been there) as in the past a reboot of the inputs has helped.

I plugged it back in after 5 minutes and it all inputs are now worse than ever.

With the inputs (Switches + 3 x PIR) Tool Kit will not scan the units.

If i only have output units connected they all scan in tool kit fine and show good consistent voltage.
Shows where the clocks are and where the burden is.

I can then use Tool Kit > Lighting Tab and turn the lights on and off in every part of the property.
They correct channels respond on the Outputs.

I can use Local Toggle on the outputs to turn lights on / off

However as soon as I now plug in the main input RJ45 that the inputs run on the system goes crazy.

Currently i cannot plug in the input main RJ45 and can only use tool kit to control lights or use local Toggle on each output.

Nightmare as i have young children and we work from home 4 days a week!

There is a spare RJ45 (other end of the loop ) in the cabinet which i had tried in the past and it did power up the inputs but still had some issues.

However when i try that now no inputs even come on.

I am convinced its an input unit, or input wiring, as i can not have any connected now without all inputs going crazy and not working at all, as above when they are connected it also stops Tool kit scanning and diagnostic fails.

Next steps:

Start removing input (Switches) one at a time and see if i can break the house in to parts and get some kind of consistent results, or at least some input (Switches) working around the house so we can at least turn lights on and off..

I do have a CBUS engineer helping me, but it going to take time and i do not have a budget really to keep trying to fix it.. But i have no other options. Hence using this excellent forum for guidance to try and help things along.

I am a basic home use and am happy with a bit of RJ45 cabling, but i am not an engineer or an electrician and unfortunately have no experience in this.

I am happy to disconnect inputs and run scans (tool kit) to see whats going on.

This is the state of affairs.

I will see this thread through though to help others in the future as there are plenty of users like me and i wont leave the thread until its fixed or have an answer....

Ill keep the progress in this thread rather than a new one or spread them about..

 

Not sure if this was covered but do you have a color touchscreen mounted in a wall somewhere. If you do and it has a transmit error this can cause most or all of your problems. If so isolate it and see how you go.

 

This is all that I can connect.
Only outputs.
When connecting input RJ45 network won’t scan.

 

Do you mean a CBUS colour touch screen? If so then no i do not..

No I do not have a colour touchscreen, The only other (clutching at straws) is next to a DLT input is a Systemline Touch Screen (Old Systemline audio over cat 5 throughout the house, not sure if you know it)
This touch screen is connected by cat 5 t(Via a patch bay) to the systemline source / control module in the cabinet which is next to my CBUS cabinet in the comms room.

I had noticed yesterday when i used a button on the DLT to turn on a light on a CBUS Relay sometimes the systemline screen would turn on. I checked in the comms room and when the relay turns that channel on the inferred lights flicker on systemline, but not every time.. Seems a long shot that would now bring all the input chain down to its current melt down state, but i will turn of systemline and even pull the power out to be sure.

Off to bed now! Its 1.20am in the UK and i am up at 7am for work, this CBUs trouble shooting is so stressful, but time consuming.

Thanks as always for the support though..

 

Hi,

Have you checked voltages from all units supplying CBUS power. Are they all in normal ranges? If there’s one not normal either remove and replace or see if it’s actually needed at all and bypass it from the system.

If voltages are good then remove the link going to all the switches and sensors. If there’s afew links then unplug them all and then connect one line at a time over the course of a few days to see if it’s all stable. If there’s a link that’s compromised ie faulty switch/sensor etc you’ll see the network stability fault

 

Hi Nick.

I have checked all Outputs in the database and there are 8 in total
I only have 7 connected though as one has been disconnected for now.

This is was is in the cabinet.

1 x 4 Channel universal dimmer, NO power supply included.
1 x 4 Channel normal dimmer, NO power supply included.
1 x Voltage free relay power supply included (200 mA)
4 X 8 channel dimmers power supply included.

Total outputs with power supply live and plugged in and on the network
200 mA x = 1000 mA (Correct ?)

+ 1 x 8 channel dimmer with power supply included. (Disconnected)

If even you add the linked out device, I make it 1200mA

However it shows 1600mA as you say.

I think at some point the previous owner had some work done / swapped outputs out and i can see in the following on the current outputs when opened in tool kit.

1 x 4 Channel universal dimmer, NO power supply included. (has no catalogue number added)
1 x 4 Channel normal dimmer, NO power supply included. has a catalogue number of "L5504D2A" This wrong as it does not have power.
1 x Voltage free relay power supply included (200 mA) (has no catalogue number added)

Does tool kit use the catalogue number to add up the total mA ?

If so should I double check them all on the actual units and amend each output by opening them in tool kit via the "Units on network" and adding the correct catalogue number ?

Or is that not how its done?

Thanks again..

 

Ok, back to basics,
Retest the cbus voltages of each unit with a power supply....
Check when isolated.
Check across the 2 cbus wires, about 25 to 31
And also from each wire to AC ground, these values must be equal.