Weirdness with Saturn 6 gang input

[MichaelCarey]

Hi Everybody,

I recently purchased a 6 gang Saturn key input unit for use at my front door. The smooth glass look and backlit keys get many oohs and aahs from my visitors. :)
But, something quite strange happens on the four keys I have configured as (memory) dimmers. If I am turning off the lights (with a short press) after they have been turned on by another unit, it takes about 6-8 seconds for the group address to be switched off. It doesn't ramp to off, there is a delay before going to 0%.
If I turn the group on using a short press and then off, if goes off with no delay....weird huh? BUT, if I turn the group on with a short press, then ramp the group up or down with a long press, it's back to the long delay before turning off.
I have checked and re-checked everything and I cannot work out why this is happening.
Any ideas?? :confused:

Regards,
Michael.

P.S. CIS tech people, this comes up as a KEYB6 in V2.76 but click on the help button and you get the help info for the NEO key input. oops!

[Don]

Michael,

You have an interesting problem.

Have you tried just using toggle dimmers? If this fixes the problem I would have to say that it is related to the storage of (new) light levels in the memory dimmer 'MEMTOG2' function. The delay is only apparent when the level has to change (that's why there is no delay if you turn on and off from the same unit as it is trying to store the same value that was recalled). The unit stores the level information to non-volatile memory (EEPROM), and if it is too busy with other tasks, the memory write can be delayed.

Are you controlling more than one group with the same key? Are there scenes active in the unit? Are you using any fancy nightlight modes? I'll try and duplicate the problem tomorrow myself, and will probably be able to suggest a solution that will still allow you the memory toggle. As you have noticed, sometimes it takes a while to get the kinks out of the installation procedures.

Don

[MichaelCarey]

I haven't tried toggle dimmer yet. I don't think any of my dimmers are set up with toggle, only memory. It's nice to have them come back on to their last group level.
Each key only controls one group, no scenes have been set.
The only other thing specific to Saturn I have enabled is the colour indication. Keys are blue when their group is 0% and orange to indicate on.
Regards,
Michael.

[Don]

I have replicated your problem here without resorting to any complex setup. Looks like I need to do some homework on this one. The toggle dimmer does fix the problem, as does (internally) adjusting the firmware to allow more time to store the level into EEPROM. Keep watching this space; I may have news of a solution soon!

Don

[MichaelCarey]

I thought I would bump this thread to the top in the hope someone has an answer to this problem, please read the original post.
I can solve the problem if I use toggle dimmers, but I REALLY want to use memory dimmers.
Please help!

[Don]

Michael,

It was a good idea to bump this up to the top of the list. I have been very busy with another new product, and forgot about this.

The problem is not an easy one to get around in your unit. I don't think any changes to the parameters will allow the "MEMTOG2" or the "STORE" key functions to work without some delay in the Saturn unit.

There is a good chance that I will be able to fix the problem for you in another way, so please be patient.

Don

[Gavin Nation]

I have two sites with very big problems with the same time delay issue.
One one site - one switch, a single key, operates as a memory dimmer for three different groups. One responds instantly, one after 4 seconds and one after 10 seconds. The client is getting very frustrated. Any respones would be apprecieated.

[Frank Mc Alinden]

Hi Guys

The only other thing specific to Saturn I have enabled is the colour indication. Keys are blue when their group is 0% and orange to indicate on.
Regards,
Michael.

Could some give a few pointers how to do this...?? I would like the switches orange when off and blue when on...Under Blocks in the Saturn there is only provision to select the turn on colour ,how do i select the 0% colour....
BTW......im using ver2.0 software at present..
Thanks
Frank

[Don]

Michael,

Your problem with the memory toggle is not fixable now. The solution will mean new hardware (sorry), but nothing else can be done. Expect a solution about mid-year. The problem relates to the time it takes for the microcontroller to store the level into EEPROM, and requires some management of the embedded code to get around.

Don

[Newman]

Could some give a few pointers how to do this...?? I would like the switches orange when off and blue when on...Under Blocks in the Saturn there is only provision to select the turn on colour ,how do i select the 0% colour....
Frank

On the Blocks tab of the V2 UI look at the section labelled "Indicators". I expect that currently there is a "2" for each indicator in the grid. Click on the "2"s and a drop-down will appear. Select "3" for "Dual+Timer". Do this for each entry in the table. Then, down below the grid there is a radio button selection for the ON colour. Pick which colour you want to be the ON colour and the other colour will now be the OFF colour.

[Frank Mc Alinden]

Thanks Newman

Oh it does look nice ;-)

Frank

[Alistair]

Has there been any progress with this issue …
I just completed my training and had noticed this issue as soon as I started to setup the Saturn switches I have purchased.
My customer is likely to notice and it may turn into an issue, although I won’t advertising the problem.

It was not mentioned during the sales process and the trainer did not seem to be aware of the issue.

[MichaelCarey]

I too (being the originator of the thread) would like to know if this will be resolved with a new Saturn unit.
I really hate the fact that the problem is in the hardware, and as such is un-repairable. I thought these sort of things are supposed to be sorted out before they are released for sale.
I think I will speak to my Clipsal sales rep and see about getting a freebie swap.

[Newman]

Firmware update was released as a running change in Saturn units towards the end of 2005, so I'd expect that old units "should" be flushed out of most major warehouses by now.

To check your unit open the Toolkit UI and read the firmware version. If it is 1.5.00 then that unit has the older firmware with the memory dimmer problem. If the firmware version is 1.6.00 then the memory dimmer problem has been fixed.

The memory dimmer problem does not occur if you have the key set up as a toggle dimmer, i.e. goes to 100% on first press.

[wanricky]

just wonder why there is major difference in hardware for Saturn and NEO...etc when they in fact performing similar functions? I mean,will it have similar issues on other switches such as NEO, reflection and DLT...etc?

Just another wonder: will there be any "members only" server that lists these major or minor issues? There is a lot of bug fixing in firmware update (I know it is normal in electronic world) but I don't seem to be able to find reference on what the new firmware improve, both for hardware and software. (well, I know why this forum is so important :rolleyes: )

[Newman]

Wanricky

You're right that Neo/Saturn/etc do perform very similar functions, but like in all things there are some subtle differences. The problem with the memory dimmer is specific to Ulti Saturn units with firmware version 1.5.00. All other C-Bus units are not affected.

With respects to bug fixes and the like you are advised to contact technical support who can address any specific concerns you have. The Forum will not be used as an official data source of such information even though we all have a great time here sharing our collective knowledge.

[ramdor]

I purchased (20th April 2006) six of the 6 gang saturns (uk), all are version 1.5.00 and have this strange 5-6 second delay problem some times. Phone call to tech support tomorrow me thinks.

Richie.

[ramdor]

Well, they got replaced. However, 5 of them were manufactured on the 1st Sep 06 and still have 1.5.00. One of them was manufactured on the 9th Oct 06 and has 1.7.00. Oh the joy.

Somewhere there is a real mess up with the version control on these things.

Richie.

[ashleigh]

No mess up. It depends on where the stock came from, and what was in the pipeline.

[ramdor]

No mess up. It depends on where the stock came from, and what was in the pipeline.

Even if they were manufactured in Sep 06 with 1.5.00 firmware? Newman posted earlier in this thread that 1.5.00 was out of date at the end of 2005. Either it was some old stock that got stickered up as 1st Sep 06, or there was a version control issue on the production line.

Richie.

[ramdor]

Now I get sent different batch from the 26 Sept 06... 1.5.00 :rolleyes:

Richie.

[wanricky]

I think it is just a problem with company policy...all old units with strange bugs are sold until they are all sold. They will replace if you notice the problem. (and then probably sell those to others) I had problem with NEO swicthes long time ago. Then I had replacement after a few months...with same firmware :o !!

Anyway, with the help of this forum and other means, minor bugs are fixed day after day, so hopefully we will see these problem less and less often...